Smash The Cis-tem: Protect Trans Lives And Rights

In this episode, Rachel covers the suicide of Nex Benedict and the murders of Pebbles LaDime "Dime" Doe and Brianna Ghey, while Kiki brings us the disappearance of Deng Vongphachan. Then we chat about books and shows and Star Trek underwear.

Our next book is "Hell's Half Acre: The Untold Story of the Benders, a Serial Killer Family on the American Frontier" by Susan Jonusas, which we will discuss in episode 16.

Sources:

Dang Vongphachan

NBC Dateline: Missing in America
https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/missing-in-america/siblings-hoping-answers-january-disappearance-california-mother-deng-v-rcna139253

If you have information please call the Del Norte County Sheriff’s Office at 707-464-4191 or 1-800-222-Find.

There is also a $10,000 reward: https://www.redwoodvoice.org/missing-mushroom-picker-search-persists-redwood-voice-community-news/

Nex Benedict, Dime Doe, and Brianna Ghey:

Kate Sosin, March 31, 2021, The History Behind International Transgender Day Of Visibility, PBS, https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/the-history-behind-international-transgender-day-of-visibility

Marie-Amelie George, April 3, 2024, Nex Benedict’s Suicide Coincides With A Wave Of Anti-LGBTQ+ Laws-And Some People’s Misunderstanding About Transgender And Nonbinary Individuals, The Conversation. https://theconversation.com/nex-benedicts-suicide-coincides-with-a-wave-of-anti-lgbtq-laws-and-some-peoples-misunderstanding-about-transgender-and-nonbinary-individuals-226098

Brianna Scott, Courteny Dorning, and Sami Yenigun, March 24, 2024, How Two Recent Cases Of Violence Illustrate The Lives Of LGBTQ People, NPR, https://www.npr.org/2024/03/24/1198910892/how-two-recent-cases-of-violence-illustrate-the-lives-of-lgbtq-people 

J. David Goodman & Edgar Sandoval, February 21, 2024, Anti-Trans Policies Draw Scrutiny After 16 Year Old’s Death In Oklahoma, The New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/us/oklahoma-transgender-law-teen-dead.html 

Jamie Wareham,  Nov 13, 2023, Beaten, Stabbed And Shot: 320 Trans People Killed In 2023-New Monitoring Report, Forbes. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2023/11/13/beaten-stabbed-and-shot-320-trans-people-murdered-in-2023/?sh=7a0940816460 

Press Release, February 24, 2024, South Carolina Man Found Guilty of Hate Crime For Killing a Transgender Woman Because of Her Gender Identity, Office Of Public Affairs: U.S. Department Of Justice. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/south-carolina-man-found-guilty-hate-crime-killing-transgender-woman-because-her-gender

Rebecca Carballo, February 24, 2024, Man Convicted in Transgender Woman’s Killing in First Federal Trial of Its Kind, The New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/24/us/dime-doe-hate-crime-transgender-murder.html 

Socials:

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Instagram: Kiki - @kikileona84
Instagram: Rachel - @eeniemanimeenienailz
Email: details.are

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

This is Kiki and this is Rachel and this is. Details Are Sketchy. A true crime podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:07

Is my face close enough to?

Speaker 1: 0:08

the thing I think so.

Speaker 2: 0:10

Okay.

Speaker 1: 0:10

Hopefully, Even though we did this just a couple weeks ago. I feel like I don't know what I'm doing.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Tea bag overboard.

Speaker 1: 0:21

Yeah, so we've got our tea, we've got our phones, so we have our information.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Yes, and we're good to go.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Okay, so I'm going first with the missing person. Okay, so I looked up this person's name, but there are different pronunciations, so I will do my best. Her name is Deng Van Phu Chan. She went missing just this past, january the 4th. She's from Crescent, or she went missing from Crescent City, california. She is 71 years old. Her hair is black. She's five foot, 129 pounds. She has brown eyes. She's an Asian female. Those are the details. I'll give you more plus the number to call if you know where she is. After Rachel does her thing.

Speaker 2: 1:15

Okay, I'm doing a couple of cases, with the focus being on on violence against the transgender community. So approximately 1.3 million American adults, meaning 0.5% of the American population, identify as transgender or non-binary. That rate is much higher among young adults. Approximately 5% of Americans between the ages of 13 and 18 identify as transgender or non-binary.

Speaker 2: 1:51

March 31st was the Transgender Day of Visibility, and it is every year, a day created by Rachel Crandall Crocker in 2009, when she recognized that the only day to officially recognize transgender people was the Transgender Day of Remembrance, which recognizes the trans lives cut short by homicide and suicide. The Transgender Day of Visibility is a day to celebrate trans and gender diverse joy and affirmation. I don't know why I sounded like a newscaster Crandall Crocker, who lost her marriage and her job when she cracked her egg, which is like the trans equivalent of coming out of the closet. They say that a trans person who has not come out is an egg, and when they come out, they crack their egg. So she said, quote I want a day we can celebrate the living and that all over the world we could be together. End quote.

Speaker 2: 3:02

She said that the day of March 31st was chosen simply out of convenience, because it was far enough in the year away from the Transgender Day of Remembrance, which is in November and did not overlap with Pride Month or any other holiday. Of course this year some conservatives have been throwing a fit about Easter falling on the same day, but that is, I wrote. That's honestly you guys' fault, right For deciding your holiday date based on the lunar calendar rather than on a fixed date. But anyway, the point is yes, that day wasn't picked to shit all over people celebrating Easter, and for many, many years it was not on the same day and it won't be on the same day next year.

Speaker 1: 3:52

Right.

Speaker 2: 3:53

Some people also seem to think that Joe Biden invented the Trans Day of Visibility just to piss off conservatives, so I wanted to set the record straight on that. That is certainly not the case. It's been there, y'all just didn't notice it. Or if you listen to our podcast, then maybe you didn't know about it, but it is a coincidence, however, that I'm recording this podcast shortly after the Trans Day of Visibility. I decided to do this topic after the untimely death of Nex Benedict and the news about their passing and the controversy surrounding it, but because I'm a procrastinator and it just took me a little while to throw this together. So, due to Next Benedict being in the news, I wanted to discuss the issue of violence toward the trans and gender diverse community, and I didn't want to wait until the Transgender Day of Remembrance, which is November 20th, to discuss it. However, I wanted to highlight trans joy. Trans joy is important and it's not all about bad, shitty stuff, even though that's what we're going to be talking about today.

Speaker 1: 5:24

Bad, shitty stuff Right.

Speaker 2: 5:25

Even though that's what we're going to be talking about today and I wanted to say that, although I am not trans, I am a gender diverse person. I'm gender queer and I use she, her and they them pronouns, which is a type of non-binary Although I'm mostly uncomfortable with she, her and stuff, but I also feel agender at times, so I just want to throw that out there, and I have loved ones who are trans and non-binary. 320 trans and gender diverse people were killed between October 1st 2022 and September 30th 2023. According to the annual report released each year on November 20th by Trans Respect vs Transphobia Worldwide NGO to mark the International Trans Day of Remembrance. The Trans Day of Remembrance is the day that remembers those trans and gender diverse people who have been victims of homicide, and was started in 1999 by transgender advocate Gwendolyn Ann Smith as a vigil to honor the memory of Rita Hester, a transgender woman killed in 1998. The vigil commemorated all the transgender people lost to violence since Rita Hester's death and began the annual tradition.

Speaker 2: 6:52

Transgender individuals are more than four times more likely than cisgender people to be victims of violent crime. They are especially likely to be attacked when they try to use public restrooms, compared to their heterosexual and cisgender peers. Transgender adolescents are disproportionately likely to experience psychological, physical and sexual abuse. Psychological, physical and sexual abuse. The vast majority of trans victims of homicide were trans women or trans feminine people 94%. Most victims were black or people of color 80%.

Speaker 2: 7:38

80% of those killed were trans people affected by racism. I'm not sure how the article is, if the article is saying you know the same thing or if they're parsing a difference between grouping Black, indigenous, people of color and people affected by racism is I'm assuming it's 80% same category, right? Many victims were sex workers. Most victims were young Victims between the ages of 19 and 40 made up 77% of all victims. 73% of tracked homicides occurred in latin america and in the caribbean, with fully 31 percent of cases happening in brazil, which surprised me because I thought that brazil was kind of a trans friendly place I think brazil is just really violent at the moment.

Speaker 1: 8:42

Yeah, it has been for a while.

Speaker 2: 8:45

During this reporting period, homicides were reported from Armenia, belgium and Slovakia for the first time. This doesn't mean that it hasn't happened there before, but it was the first time it was documented this way. An analysis of the data indicates concerning trends, violence has become more acute, wherein trans people live and are attacked because of intersections of misogyny, racism, xenophobia and whorephobia. I don't think it's pertinent to get into too many details about the methods of murder, except to say that guns were a major factor once again, with 46% of victims having been shot, and that many methods of murder were brutal and not very nice. It's also important to note that many hate crimes go unreported, so the numbers may be much higher than the numbers actually reflected even in the report.

Speaker 1: 9:54

Hold on a second. I did look up Brazil's homicide rate. One out of every five homicides in the world occurs in brazil. That's crazy. Yeah, they were in 2020. That's as of 2022. Yeah, as oh, as of 2020, they were ranked 10th in the world yeah also. El salvador was one at the time, the first so, yeah, stay safe if you're in brazil.

Speaker 2: 10:24

Yeah, I mean, stay safe everywhere. So next, benedict. In recent years, lgbtqia plus rights advocates have secured important legal victories for transgender and non-binary individuals. This includes conversion therapy bans, which prohibit licensed mental health professionals from trying to get minors to change their sexual orientation or gender identity. There are other new laws in several states that require school districts to include stories of LGBTQIA plus people and histories in civics or social studies cases.

Speaker 2: 11:13

Republican-led states like Arkansas and Florida have passed laws that discriminate against LGBTQIA plus people, particularly transgender and non-binary individuals. Republican lawmakers have opened child abuse investigations against the parents of transitioning minors in Texas and banned drag performances in Montana and Tennessee, although a federal judge struck down Tennessee's law. While 61% of Democrats recognize a person's gender could be different than their sex assigned at birth, only 31% of Republicans agree. Additionally, 66% of Republicans believe society has gone too far in accepting transgender individuals. Because so many Republicans oppose transgender identity, alphabet squad LGBTQIA plus laws as a way of driving voters to the polls. Local school boards in places like Florida and Texas have also censored library books that discuss gender fluidity and restricted transgender students' ability to access the restroom that aligns with their gender identity. Some Republican politicians claim that the laws are necessary to protect the rights of parents who object to LGBTQIA plus rights, but the laws have created a hostile school environment that is devastating for young LGBTQIA plus students.

Speaker 2: 13:08

Lgbtqia rights activists have pressed schools to install instill tolerance for same-sex sexuality and transgender identity. It's not just like same-sex sexuality. Queerness also includes all kinds of different sexuality. That's not heterosexuality like allosexual, heterosexuality like asexual, bisexual. Just want to throw that out there. I'm just clarifying for our readers.

Speaker 1: 13:51

You mean listeners?

Speaker 2: 13:52

Yeah, Damn it. Readers, I keep saying everything, but like listeners, I'm like our viewers. I don't know what we do here. Data shows LGBTQIA plus youth who live in a community accepting of LGBTQIA plus identity report significantly lower rates of suicide attempts. But legislatures the legislators have done the opposite, because they don't care about lowering suicide attempts, they care about getting votes. 18 states, including Arkansas, florida, indiana, north Carolina, now have laws that restrict how teachers can talk about sexual orientation and gender identity. Among the list is Next Benedict's home state of Oklahoma. In 2024 alone, various state legislatures have introduced almost 500 such bills, many of which target LGBTQIA plus youth in schools. Some of these bills restrict which restroom transgender students can use, which sports teams they can join, and others censor the information that all students receive about sexual orientation and gender identity. I don't know what they are trying. You know you can't make kids not gay or not trans by not telling them about gayness and transness, like. I don't know why they think that works because they don't care to understand it.

Speaker 1: 15:41

A lot of these things, I think, are really just to appease voters and also yeah many of them are not.

Speaker 2: 15:49

They don't bother to learn yeah, no, they don't bother to learn. It doesn't work. It doesn't work.

Speaker 1: 15:56

It just makes those kids feel confused and lost and lonely and yeah, and because so many of them are religious, they're're just going to say pray to God. Or they're sinners, they're not, which they don't bite into. You can't choose. That's part of the problem is that they just won't accept it, no matter the evidence.

Speaker 2: 16:17

Which is even more isolating.

Speaker 1: 16:19

I know.

Speaker 2: 16:19

Then it's like oh, who you are is sinful, and it's like then it's like, oh, who you are is sinful. As of March 2024, 189 of these proposals have advanced and 15 have been enacted. So that's scary. A majority of LGBTQIA plus teens report being bullied in school. A 2022 report by the Trevor Project, a nonprofit focused on suicide prevention I'm sure that you've heard of them every June, unless you really have your head in the sand about pride Revealed that 45% of LGBTQIA plus people age 13 to 24 seriously considered attempting suicide. The previous year, almost 20% of transgender and non-binary young people actually tried to end their lives.

Speaker 2: 17:17

The number of reported LGBTQ plus hate crimes committed at school more than doubled between 2018 and 2022, particularly in states like Florida. Georgia be harassed and assaulted today than they were five years ago. That's really infuriating information. Yes, the day before non-binary teen next, benedict's life was cut short by suicide. They got into an altercation with three girls in the girls bathroom at their school, a bathroom they were compelled to use by state law. Benedict was beaten so badly by three female students that they blacked out and had to go to the hospital for treatment. The school didn't take them to the hospital. The students previously mocked Benedict and their friend quote because of the way we dress. End quote. According to a statement Benedict gave to the police the day of the fight, npr reported the police had been experiencing bullying. For over a year Benedict had been the police had been experiencing bullying.

Speaker 2: 18:53

Benedict had been experiencing bullying for over a year. At that point, on February 24th, the police released a video of Nex's interview at the hospital on the day of the altercation, which provided the fullest account of what happened. Nex said in the interview that three girls had beaten them after Nex poured water on the girls for laughing at them and their friend. Nex said the girls had previously mocked Nex and their friends because of the way we dress. We were laughing, nex said, and they had said something like why do you laugh like that? They were talking about us in front of us. Then all three of them came at me, nex added. At one point Nex hit their head on the bathroom floor. According to Sue Benedict, their grandmother and guardian, nicks, went to the hospital and was able to come home that same day. The next day, nicks collapsed at home and was rushed back to the hospital where they were pronounced dead. Where they were pronounced dead, ms Benedict said in autopsy by the chief medical examiner in Tulsa concluded the next had died by suicide, the result of a toxic combination of medication. But the Benedict family said in a statement that a full version of the autopsy report has not yet been released to the public Also noted other injuries, including a broken blood vessel in the eye, various bruises, cuts and abrasions to the head, face, torso and limb, which they said contradict allegations of the assault on Nex being insignificant. Police officials said the result of their investigation would be forwarded to the district attorney's office after the release of the full autopsy report. Questions remain over why school officials did not contact the police or any other officials after the altercation.

Speaker 2: 21:00

Oklahoma's superintendent for public schools, ryan Walters, has been staunch in his anti-transgender rhetoric since assuming his role in 2022. Mr Walters remained firm in his stance after the incident and, in his first interview since Nex's death, told the Times he does not believe non-binary or transgender people exist. Quote you always treat individuals with dignity or respect because they're made in God's image, mr Walter said. But that doesn't change truth. Truth. Meanwhile, supporters of LGBTQIA plus rights have reacted with anger over Nex's death, saying such restrictive policies on gender are harmful. Quote Ryan Walters has created a devastatingly hostile environment for trans, two-spirit and gender non-conforming students, said Nicole McPhee, the executive director of Freedom Oklahoma, a gay, lesbian and transgender advocacy group. Transgender students said classmates have seen rhetoric from officials like Mr Walters as permission to harass and bully them. The US Department of Education said on March 1st it had opened an investigation in light of Nex's death, looking into whether Owasa Public Schools had failed to appropriately respond to the alleged harassment of students, in violation of federal law. In a statement, the school district said it was cooperating with federal officials and added it believes the complaint submitted by HRC is not supported by facts and is without merit.

Speaker 2: 22:51

But yeah, lots of infuriating things. It really infuriates me that I know this part about whatever part about whatever this superintendent is not illegal but just makes me want to punch him in the face with his little like religious, self-righteous douchebaggery. Like obviously he didn't treat they don't treat necks with dignity and respect, it's. It pissed me off so much how certain brand of Christians are like oh, we want to chastise you or whatever with love or with respect or whatever it's like you can't just say it's with love and then turn around and like take away somebody's rights, like that's not love, no, no. That's why they say there's no love like christian or there's no hate like christian. Love, yeah, and it's true. Like you know, they'll be like oh, we, we love, you know, we love the sinner, but not the sin. Like it's not a fucking sin and it's not like there's nothing about being trans or gender nonconforming in the Bible. It's all in your imaginations. If you are out there imagining that, so suck it. And also, jesus wore a dress. So that's very sad. It is very sad. Is there something else I wanted to say about that particular case? I think there was, but I forgot what it was. So on to the next very sad case. Yes, so this is a case.

Speaker 2: 24:52

Pebbles LaDime, known by her friends as Dime Doe, and when I first I was reading like Doe, like I thought they were calling her Doe, like Jane Doe, but her name was Doe, yeah, okay, so she was a 24-year-old hairdresser who lived in South Carolina, carolina, and a South Carolina man was just found guilty on at the end of February, february 24th, for this crime. For this crime, yep, in, what authorities have said is the first federal murder trial of someone charged with a hate, successfully charged with a hate crime based on gender identity. Well, good sets of precedents, a big win for the trans community. Dine Doe loved the spotlight, according to Pink News. She loved fashion, social media and her friends. She sounded like a real social butterfly. She was a hairdresser, like I said.

Speaker 2: 26:07

Her friend, simone Gadsden, grew up with Dime and says they spent most of their time together. She said Dime was the most loving, happy, joyful, outgoing person you could ever meet. Like most transgender people, dime named herself a part of the process of growing into herself that made her, as Simone says, stronger as she got older. Simone Gadsden grew up with Dime and says wait, I put that twice. Whoopsie, I put the same thing two times. Yeah, it happens. With her joy also came a confidence that didn't hinge on the opinions of others. Good for you. That attitude was palpable. You know, you kind of have to have a strong backbone, especially in a place like fucking South Carolina, especially in a place like fucking South Carolina, and, to you know, have that joy, even though there's people who literally want to kill her and did.

Speaker 2: 27:16

Dime was in high school when she met her friend Jada. Although they didn't get along at first frenemies, a friendship developed after they learned. They shared friends and were the only two trans women in their community, according to Jada. Jada says she gave Dime advice and hormones two things she needed to feel like herself as the quiet one in the friendship. Jada appreciated how Dime pulled her out of her shell with laughter Quote. She could make me laugh like nobody else. Jada recalls she was hilarious. That's what I'm going to miss the most. Dime was remembered as loyal and loving. She protected her friends. Jada recalls one night when she and Dime were driving through the neighborhood and an object was thrown at her car. Dime made Jada stop the car so Dime could get out and defend her friend against the culprits. Jada said they didn't have any issues with them.

Speaker 2: 28:18

After that, dime was living in Allendale, south Carolina, when she was found murdered in a car on August 4th, three months shy of her 25th birthday. Friends and family offered an outpouring of love on Facebook and gathered on Dime's birthday, november 16th, in remembrance of her. November 16th, in remembrance of her Hours before she had died, she had made plans with a friend, tiana, to have dinner together. Dime had planned on stopping by Tiana's house, where she liked to cook and share her effervescent energy Quote. It happened every day. She was never a sad person. You could barely catch her mad. Tiana says she always kept it energetic.

Speaker 2: 29:15

Doe was found dead with gunshot wounds in a parked car in a driveway. Tragically, doe's death was the 15th known case of deadly violence against the transgender community in 2019, and the second in South Carolina. On July 20, 2019, denali Berry Stuckey, also a black transgender woman, was fatally shot in North Charleston. As occurs far too often in the reporting of anti-transgender violence, initial reports also misgendered and misnamed Joe in coverage of the crime, delaying the human right. Human right what is the last? It's hrc, and I don't remember what the c stands for. Fuck human rights campaign. Awareness of her death.

Speaker 2: 30:19

Anti-transgender stigma is exacerbated by callous or disrespectful treatment too often seen in the media. Yeah, the ass. Law enforcement. They're getting better, but yeah, a lot of times they're. I've seen stories where they misgender and it doesn't. You know if I can learn about it. You can learn about it. You can Google it. You can learn about it. Journalists can learn about it too. If you're a journalist, get your shit together. Who often report? Hrc offers guidelines for journalists and others who report on transgender people.

Speaker 2: 31:13

Okay, so federal officials have previously prosecuted hate crimes based on gender identity. A Mississippi man received a 49-year-old prison sentence in 2017 as part of a plea deal after he admitted to killing a 17-year-old, jesus Transgender. It says woman, but it's a girl. Okay, 17-year year olds are girls. However, that's another thing that pissed me off is when like, especially like if it's somebody who's trans, especially a person of color, and they make them older than what they are. But if it's a white person, then they make them seem younger, like. If it's like a white killer or somebody, then they're like oh, this 30-year-old boy or something like that, but a 17-year-old is a woman.

Speaker 2: 32:20

Like, come on, a 17-year-old is a minor and therefore a girl, okay, anyway. However, this is the first murder case in the country that made it to trial where someone was successfully charged with a hate crime based on gender identity. Charged with a hate crime based on gender identity. After deliberating for several hours, jurors found the murderer, whose name was Dequa Lamique Ritter, guilty of the hate crime of murdering Dime Doe in 2019. It stands as a testament to our commitment to prosecute these crimes, said Brooke Andrews, the first assistant US attorney for the District of South Carolina. It also stands as a reminder that Dime's life mattered. It is a tremendous result for us and the people of that community. Yes, the second part, the first part. I felt like, yes, good for you, but I feel like also like they're giving themselves a little bit of air as like, like you should have been working at this a lot longer and a lot harder, like I'm glad that you did this, but there is also a lot more of these victims out here who need this same justice. So get justice for them, too, and then you can give yourself a round of applause. I mean, it's good. You know, I'm not saying it's not a big deal, but I'm just saying that there's a lot of other people who have not had justice. Mr Ritter was also found guilty of obstructing justice and using a firearm in connection with the killings. He faces a maximum sentence of life in prison without parole, but a sentencing date has not been scheduled yet. He was just charged at the end of February. Sentencing date has not been scheduled yet. He was just charged at the end of February.

Speaker 2: 34:26

Mr Ritter, who was originally from New York City, would visit his grandmother in Allendale, south Carolina, and during that time he became close with Ms Doe. According to court documents, witnesses told law enforcement officials that Ms Doe and Mr Ritter were in a sexual relationship during the time leading up to her death. Mr Ritter tried to keep the relationship a secret because he did not want his girlfriend or the community to know about it. Prosecutors said that Mr Ritter was upset that word about his sexual relationship with Ms Doe was circulating in Allendale. Mr Ritter became irate after Ms Doe publicized their relationship and many of his friends mocked him for it. According to court documents, witnesses said he threatened to harm Ms Doe as a result. According to court documents, mr Ritter had picked up Ms Doe and was pulled over by Allendale County Sheriff's Department deputy for speeding. The deputy's body showed Mr Ritter's distinctive jeans as well as a tattoo and scar on his arm. According to the court documents, prosecutors said Mr Ritter then lured Miss Doe to a remote area in Allendale and shot her three times in the head. Afterwards he burned the clothes he wore during the crime, disposed of the murder weapon and repeatedly lied to investigators.

Speaker 2: 35:57

According to federal prosecutors, on the day Doe died a group of friends saw Ritter ride away in a silver car with tinted windows, a vehicle of Ritter's acquaintance. Cordell Jenkins said he had seen Doe drive previously. When Ritter returned several hours later, jenkins said he wore a new outfit and appeared on edge. The friends built a fire in a barrel to smoke out the mosquitoes on that buggy summer day and Ritter emptied his book bag into it. Jenkins testified that's not suspicious at all. He said he couldn't see the contents but assumed they were items Ritter no longer wanted, possibly the clothes he wore earlier. The two ran into each other the following day, jenkins said, and he could see the silver handle of a small firearm sticking out from Ritter's waistline. He said Ritter asked him to get it gone With all the buzz.

Speaker 2: 36:57

With rumors that Ritter killed Doe. He began behaving uncharacteristically. Rumors that Ritter killed Doe he began behaving uncharacteristically, according to witness testimony. Green said that when he showed up days later at her cousin's house in Columbia he was dirty, smelly and couldn't stop pacing. Her cousin's boyfriend gave Ritter a ride to the bus stop before he left. Green another witness Asked him if he had killed Doe Quote. He dropped his head and gave me a little smirk, green said.

Speaker 2: 37:32

One of Mr Ritter's defense lawyers, joshua Kendrick, argued that there were inconsistencies in the government's case. He pointed to text messages that showed quote a lot of respect and a calm nature. Oh yeah, totally so. Much respect and a calm nature until he decided to shoot her three times in the head. That didn't match up with the government witnesses who told investigators they knew of Mr Ritter's threats of violence. I felt we pointed out a lot of inconsistencies.

Speaker 2: 38:08

The jury didn't agree, mr Kendrick said. On Saturday they reached a verdict that we respect in fact a hate crime Because in order to prove the hate crime element during the trial, the Department of Justice relied heavily on arguments that Ritter feared he would be ridiculed if the relationship became public. Be ridiculed if the relationship became public knowledge public knowledge. In the rural South Carolina community Jurors reached a consensus on the charge that Ritter obstructed justice by lying to investigators. D Elder, a juror who served on the case, said they also felt comfortable concluding that Ritter was the one who killed Doe. But Elder said that determining the reason for committing the crime is what took four hours of deliberation, which doesn't seem like that much deliberation to me.

Speaker 1: 39:17

How long was it? I'm sorry, four hours, that's pretty quick, yeah right.

Speaker 2: 39:23

Yeah. Hundreds of text messages between the pair, later obtained by the FBI, proved key to the conviction she said. In many of them, ritter repeatedly reminded Doe to delete their communications from her phone. The majority of the texts sent in the months before the killing were deleted. According to one of FBI officials' testimony, ritter often communicated through an app called TextNow, which provides users with a phone number that is different from their cell phone number. Officials testified In a July 29, 2019 message.

Speaker 2: 40:05

Doe complained that Ritter never reciprocated the generosity she showed him through such favors as driving him around town. Ritter replied that he thought they had an understanding and that she didn't need the extra stuff. God, what a piece of shit. Shit, shit, boyfriend, mm-hmm. In another text, ritter, who visited Allendale from New York in the summers, complained that his main girlfriend at the time, delacia Green, had insulted him with a homophobic slur after learning of his affair with Doe. At trial, green testified that Ritter told her not to question his sexuality when she confronted him. Doe told Ritter in a message on July 31st she felt used and that he never should have let Green find out about them, and that he never should have let Green find out about them.

Speaker 2: 41:03

The exchanges showed that Ritter was quote using this poor girl end quote and taking advantage of their connection, elder said, when she had the nerve to be happy about it and wanted to share it with her friends. This is one of the jurors speaking. He got nervous and scared that others would find out and put it into it. End quote, she added. Without going into detail, she added that she understands firsthand the real world harm caused by the stigma still attached to being a transgender person. In my personal experience, it can be dangerous for transgender women to date. End quote. But Elder had another more helpful message to impart as well we're everywhere. If one of us goes down, there will be another one of us on the jury, she said. And we have always been here. We're just now letting ourselves be known.

Speaker 1: 42:03

I was just looking up the hate crime law, the reason a lot of these which you, I and even the police would consider hate crimes in order for it to be prosecuted successfully, because it's done by a jury, usually right, and if you fail then that person can never be tried again for that crime. Yeah, so they want like clear-cut evidence. So essentially what they do to be on the safe side so that they are convicted of a hate crime, they basically have to verbally the accused has to verbally state something like that which, in this case, they did they did through the text messages yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:49

So I mean yeah, and I think yeah, judging by this, by what I've been reading, it's um annoying to a lot of people, not just outside the justice system, but within the justice system too. But you know, conviction is what matters, not just the arrest, and so, unfortunately, if they're not convicted, then they could, or if they're found not guilty, then they can go free, so they want something really solid, it sucks.

Speaker 1: 43:23

It really sucks, but sometimes that's the law I mean in our country. I don't know, maybe it's good or bad, but the accused have way more rights than victims do. Yeah, that's kind of the foundation of our law, right?

Speaker 2: 43:38

But also, yeah, I would, I'm sure that there are probably some ones like with like text, social media and stuff like that, and with people, so many people, posting online, you know whatever. Yeah, hateful kind of rhetoric. I wonder if we're going to see more cases that are able to be convicted like that.

Speaker 1: 44:06

I'm sure more people will be convicted of that as more people put their thoughts on yeah, on social media I bet it is fucking hard to date as a trans woman in a shit little south carolina town.

Speaker 2: 44:24

Yeah, although I don't know, it makes me sad that you know that the person she ended up get it Like why be with a trans woman? If you hate trans women, you know, yeah, homophobic, and you think that being with a trans woman you're so terrified that that might make you gay. Yeah, which trans women are women. So if you're a straight man with a trans woman, you are straight still, okay, like women are women like. But that's not how you know transphobics think yeah, and that's not how transphobics think yeah, and that's why he didn't want his girlfriend to find out, because he said in one of the text messages or whatever he didn't want her to find out and think that he was gay. Oh my God, yes.

Speaker 2: 45:39

So this victim her name was Brianna Gay, g-h-e-y, and she was just like 16 had transferred in from a different high school and that girl had transferred into that high school because she had had some trouble in that high school. She had fed an edible to a much younger girl against her knowledge and stuff like that, and so she had been transferred and she became friends with Brianna. But Brianna and people around them didn't really know about this girl's past and basically this girl became obsessed with Brianna and tried to kill her with an ibuprofen overdose, which was unsuccessful. I believe that Brianna thought that it was drugs that she was taking and then later she recruited, like her old friend who is a boy I I forget their names, I will have to check my notes, but but she recruited him and they basically lured brianna to this park. They thought she thought that they were just going to the park to smoke pot and hang out and they stabbed her 28 times and they brutally stabbed her to death.

Speaker 2: 47:29

Can I?

Speaker 1: 47:30

ask yes, was it because you just said that the girl was obsessed? So did she kill her because of the obsession or did they kill her because she is trans?

Speaker 2: 47:45

I think that that her being trans was part of the obsession okay yeah and the boy who was involved definitely sent some transphobic texts gotcha. I believe this was prosecuted as a hate crime in the UK where he referred to Brianna as it and said that he basically was excited to find out if she was going to scream like a boy or a girl to find out if she was going to scream like a boy or a girl, which is really disturbing and disgusting coming from like a 15-year-old boy. Yeah, Teenagers are terrifying.

Speaker 1: 48:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:31

And you know, they have all these hormones but their brains are not set and it's just a very dangerous kind of time. Yeah, I kind of look back and I'm like how did we all survive this?

Speaker 1: 48:46

yeah, yeah I'm sure none of us survived unscathed. I mean, we may have survived with our lives, but this baby girl did not.

Speaker 2: 48:53

She was brutally stabbed. Yeah and yeah, yeah, very, yeah, very sad. Let me see, if they said, yeah, they were convicted. Obviously, what year was it? It was 2023. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:18

Because I think that because she was like a more middle class white teen, that there was more attention on it, and I think also because not just because of that, but also because I think that people are becoming more aware of these issues and it's been more difficult to sweep under the rug. Yeah, but yeah, sometimes, like with autism, like it's you know, you take things at face value and you it's hard to know if people are going to have ill intent towards you. And not a victim blaming, but that's something that her mother said, that she felt that impaired Brianna's ability to judge the fact that her friend was trying to harm her.

Speaker 1: 50:21

What impaired her? I'm sorry. What impaired her. I'm sorry my brain. What impaired her?

Speaker 2: 50:25

That her autism. Oh okay, I'm sorry. I just didn't hear the word Impaired her ability to I hate to say impaired like autism. Well, autism can be an impairment, it can be. Well, that's a complicated thing. Okay, so we're not going to get into that.

Speaker 1: 50:44

No.

Speaker 2: 50:45

But I'm just saying that, like you're often give people your face value Right and so you trust that they're giving you their face value Right, and sometimes it's hard to realize that people, other people, manipulate and they're not straightforward, right Like you are. And so, right yeah, this person the murderer. Well, there are two murderers, but the girl who planned all of this stuff, like she had planned this extensively and and multiple attempts.

Speaker 1: 51:26

Right.

Speaker 2: 51:26

And, uh, her name was Jenkinson and the boy's name was Radcliffe. They had gone together, they had uh known each other at the previous high school that Jenkinson had attended. So yeah, brianna believed they were going to hang out together at the park, but Jenkinson had been known to have a previous fascination with violence and serial killers, although that's hard to yeah, because lots of people are interested in serial killers.

Speaker 1: 52:02

Yeah, the interest doesn't necessarily equate to violence. I mean, look at all the true crime stuff.

Speaker 2: 52:07

But looking into their messages and stuff. They had been planning the torture and murder for weeks, yeah, so they had encouraged one another to think about how they would carry out the killings. On the morning of February 11th 2023, so a little bit over a year ago Gay was messaged by Jenkinson instructing her to take a bus to the library. She was captured on doorbell camera leaving her house. She messaged her mother about meeting Jenkinson, so she did everything she was supposed to. Yeah, yeah, about meeting jenkinson, so she did everything she was supposed to. Yeah, yeah, but still, you know, sometimes you just can't sucks. It does like she did do everything she was supposed to and this was somebody that she really thought was her friend.

Speaker 1: 52:56

yeah, yeah but the whole time you trust people.

Speaker 2: 52:59

This person had been extensively planning on killing her. Yeah, like, how fucked up does a teenager have to be to be planning and attempting multiple times to kill somebody? Yeah, okay, yeah, so I guess that's all I really want to talk about that. Mm-hmm I yeah, talk about that. Mm-hmm I I yeah, it's okay.

Speaker 1: 53:28

So, oh, I need to finish mine. Yeah, yeah Again, the missing person is Deng Van Pho Chan. Sorry, I still. I looked at many times and I just there were actually a few different pronunciations. Okay, uh, she was 71 years old and she was last uh seen or known to be searching for mushrooms in the del norte county area of northern california. Her truck has been found near the intersection of Lowe Divide Road and Forest Service Road 17 and 21, approximately six miles from North Bank Road, but she still hasn't been found. If you know anything about her disappearance, you are encouraged to contact Deputy Balk B-A-L-C-H at the Del Norte Sheriff's Office at 707-464-4191. There are also other numbers which I will put up because I don't have them on me right now, and I believe there may also be a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the accused. Okay, so what have you been reading and watching?

Speaker 2: 54:54

Let's see what have I read since the last time.

Speaker 1: 55:00

Well, we read Sister Maiden Monster. We had read sister maiden monster.

Speaker 2: 55:06

Okay, cool. I have read like three books since then. So I read don't want you like a best friend, which is a. Want you Like a Best Friend, which is a sapphic kind of like just fluffy Victorian romance. Yeah, very fluffy, low spice, very cutesy. I read Bookshops and Bone Dust, which is a prequel to Legends, and Lattes, which is another sapphic romance. This one is like a. Is she a troll or an ogre? Her name is Viv. I think she's an. I want to say she's an ogre and she's like a mercenary, like an adventuring mercenary, but in this one, she which is set before the Legends of Nolante's one, she's injured her leg and so she's holed up in this town while she heals and she ends up getting involved in a bookshop, like helping to improve the business, and she has a little romance with a dwarf that runs a bakery. Zero spice, very fluffy, very cute, If you like fantasy and whatever you know. Very cozy, low, zero, stress, kind of read.

Speaker 2: 56:49

And then I read the Girl in Red by Christina Henry, which is like a post-apocalyptic story loosely based on Red Riding Hood, and that was fun. Yes, I enjoyed all of those books. It was a good little run of books that were easy to read, fun, entertaining and low stress. And now I'm reading the Great Gatsby again.

Speaker 1: 57:21

We're co-reading it, although Rachel, like always, is much farther ahead. Yeah, I read the first two paragraphs and was like he's a windbag, that's all right.

Speaker 2: 57:34

See, I feel like it's not that windbaggy, I feel like it flows pretty easily it's pretty, flows pretty easily.

Speaker 1: 57:50

I just mean he sometimes says things that could be said in a shorter way.

Speaker 2: 57:53

Sometimes that rubs me. You're such a journalist I know I can't help it.

Speaker 1: 57:56

It was my training for like five years um. It's not always like I like dickens, who does that?

Speaker 2: 58:03

it's not always supposed to be, I know, I know I.

Speaker 1: 58:07

It's just a mood. Sometimes I'm sure I will and also I think a lot of it is just because I have a 20-year hate for it and I don't even know why I hate it yeah, I, I I'm trying to solve this mystery too, yeah well, we will. I'll read it.

Speaker 2: 58:24

It's not like. I'm not like oh my God like I love this book with a passion, but I'm like it's all right, like I don't understand the hatred, and so I'm trying we're going to delve into Katie's psyche and find out why she hates the Great Gatsby. Also, nick Carraway is gay or bisexual, and I stand by that.

Speaker 1: 58:48

That's a hill you'll die on.

Speaker 2: 58:49

It is a hill I'll die on.

Speaker 1: 58:53

I didn't even know that was a question, and we both mostly enjoyed Sister Maiden Monster, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:06

Yeah, you hated the first character. I hated her. Do you want to talk?

Speaker 1: 59:11

about that. Sure, I hated her until she turned into the actual thing she turned into. And then I was fine with her. I think you know it's not necessarily the character. I think you know it's not necessarily the character. I think just in that part there were a few places where the author was kind of lecturing on their beliefs, even though I agreed with them. Yeah, it just felt that that kind of thing pulls me out of the, out of the book.

Speaker 2: 59:37

Yeah, you know what I mean. I was okay with that until she kind of went over that same stuff with the next character, but in a better way, yeah, and I was like, well, you didn't need to do that with the first character. Then, right, exactly. So yeah, at that point I was like, okay, that wasn't really necessary.

Speaker 1: 59:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:58

With the other character, with this, with the second character the sex worker. It made a lot more sense. Yeah, I was like you should have just kept this one Right and kept it out of the other character. Right.

Speaker 1: 1:00:14

I don't know, but I did enjoy the second part.

Speaker 2: 1:00:16

Yeah. And I did enjoy the third part Not as much as the second part.

Speaker 1: 1:00:23

I liked the third part Not as much as the second part I liked the third part. I liked it too. Also, I was. I guess I was thinking like the second and third part felt more connected than the first part I feel like maybe the first part might have been a short story or something that she brought in.

Speaker 2: 1:00:41

Yeah, yeah, definitely the second and third part felt more cohesive. Watching What'd you watch? What did you watch? Um, watching What'd you watch? What did you watch? I watched some more Picard. I've been slowly crawling my way through season three and Steven Universe. We're on. I just started season four again. I watched the whole series before, but I just started season four.

Speaker 2: 1:01:11

Yeah, I just started season four yeah, on days when I am like I'm tired and I'm going to pass out, I put on Steven Universe Because they're just like 10, 15 minute cartoons, right, and I'm like, if I pass out, I'll just go back, right, easy. And on days when I feel more alert, then I watch Picard. So that's what I've been watching. Oh, I watched a documentary or no, not? Documentary 2020 episode about Ruby Frankie. Yeah, I watched that too.

Speaker 2: 1:01:45

Yeah, yeah, and I was infuriated, yes, on many behalves. You know, what infuriated me and continues to infuriate me about that and many other situations, is how, like the older daughters were like we sought help multiple times and they wouldn't help until it's like to that extreme situation. And then they're like, oh, we're crying, we're sad and it's like that extreme situation. And then they're like, oh, we're crying, we're sad and it's like you could have stopped it.

Speaker 1: 1:02:19

Yeah, yeah, it is very frustrating, so yeah, that's more.

Speaker 2: 1:02:26

Uh, but I thought maybe we'd do that for a future episode.

Speaker 1: 1:02:29

Yeah absolutely, absolutely. Um yeah, absolutely Absolutely we should. Oh, I just got a message from CrimeCon, their app thingy. There is a the somebody's going to be showing the Chad Daybell trial, I think this coming week live.

Speaker 2: 1:02:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:50

So I'll send you the link. Maybe we can watch it. I might be teaching at the time so I might not be able to, but if you're interested, yeah, because then we can talk about it, let's do it. Okay, so what did I read and watch? Besides reading Sister Maiden Monster, I also read. Finally, I read my book, club Book.

Speaker 1: 1:03:10

It's been a while, but it was a reread for me and a pick. It was what is I can never. A curious beginning by deanna raybourne, which is the first in the victoria, victoria speedwell, veronica speedwell mystery series.

Speaker 2: 1:03:25

If you like victorian history, if you like strong female characters, weren't we gonna read like the sequel to that at some point?

Speaker 1: 1:03:34

Yeah, we can do that. Um, if, if you like, you know super hot bad boys who are all also nerdy, then you might like that book. I was surprised because normally when I pick a book my book club does not necessarily like the book, but this time almost everybody did, but if you get aggravated by unfulfilled sexual tension yeah, you might be upset you may have you're gonna have to read several more of this series probably before anything.

Speaker 1: 1:04:06

May or may not happen. I know, I know it's good, though it really is good. You've enjoyed it right. Right, yeah, I do enjoy it. Yeah, let's see. So I read that one. I read most of. I think the book is called when Crack Was King, which is a fairly new book. I read that for my work reading group. I didn't finish it, but it was really good up to what I read. I would recommend it, unless you get super infuriated by drug laws I get super infuriated.

Speaker 2: 1:04:37

I know a lot of things, including drug, yeah I wouldn't recommend it.

Speaker 1: 1:04:41

You're good you're just gonna throw the book across the room or whatever. No, it was actually well done, because it's not just about that. The author actually follows, uh, different people who experienced the crack epidemic while it was at its height, and it's really, it's really well done. It was really well done, so I read half of that and I read two paragraphs of the Great Gatsby. So go me, oh, I did watch. I've watched a lot of killer couples pretty much every season. I didn't even know it was a thing, so I was watching a lot of that for background noise. There's enough to make a whole show about it.

Speaker 2: 1:05:22

Like a series, what do you mean? Like there's a whole series about Killer couples. Killer couples.

Speaker 1: 1:05:29

Oh yeah, there's like five or six seasons, I think. Oh wow yeah, that is extensive. It is extensive. Some of the stories are well-known and some aren't, I think, or at least they're known to me but, not others.

Speaker 1: 1:05:41

It was good. It was background noise I also saw they have. Have you ever seen the movie Copycat? I'm not saying it's a great movie, but I really enjoy it. It's, I think, made in the 90s. It's got Sigourney Weaver oh nice. I believe the actress's name is Holly Hunter. I think that sounds familiar. Dylan, what are the Dylans? It's not Dylan McDermott, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:06:08

You had me at.

Speaker 1: 1:06:08

Sigourney Weaver. Oh, tell me what it's about. Okay, hold on. It has one of the Dylans and it also has Harry Connick Jr in it. It is about so Sigourney Weaver is like a criminal psychologist, I guess, okay, and she gets attacked by a serial killer, almost dies and she develops agoraphobia. Some time later, I think they're in San Francisco there is a serial killer and Holly Hunter's character and the Dillon character are detectives and they go to her to try and get her help. She agrees to help, even though she's stuck in her house, and so they are trying to figure out who the serial killer is to catch him. It's quite good. So, yeah, it was a good movie.

Speaker 1: 1:07:02

I don't know if you'd like it or not, I just enjoyed it when I watched it. I've seen it a few times. Did I watch anything else? No, but I do want to say most of my week has been taken up by clue. So clue is you can play clue on your on your phone now, which is awesome, um, and it's a lot of fun, and there's even a sherlock version if you are so inclined somebody in one of my I follow on the nail Instagram has been doing like a series based on Star Trek uniforms and they just did the Enterprise uniforms.

Speaker 1: 1:07:47

Oh, wow, yeah, isn't that cool yeah it is cool.

Speaker 2: 1:07:49

And they said what are your favorite uniforms? And I said I really like the Enterprise uniforms from the decontamination scenes.

Speaker 1: 1:08:02

It's true that was a very naked or semi-naked series.

Speaker 2: 1:08:07

Very sexual Star Trek it was Something for everybody too. They responded woof flame emojis Yep, yep.

Speaker 1: 1:08:19

In fact there is a whole episode of one of the good-looking guys just in his underwear. Like the whole episode Do you remember that? One? Yeah, I think so. We meet the Ferengi Yep For the first time. Yeah, yeah, what was that character's name?

Speaker 2: 1:08:35

Trip, trip, yeah, trip yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:08:37

Yeah, yeah, also enjoyed Scott Bakula.

Speaker 2: 1:08:40

Oh, my God.

Speaker 1: 1:08:41

He may be old enough to be my grandpa, but he's yummy.

Speaker 2: 1:08:43

No, he's still yummy. What the fuck Like? Yeah, yeah, his sex appeal does not wane. No, it doesn't. It does not.

Speaker 1: 1:08:59

no, um, yeah, that show is very bisexual friendly, recommend yeah, and I think I think has one of the best, if not the best, mirror mirror episodes yes, yeah, the mirror.

Speaker 2: 1:09:08

Mirror episode is really good. Yeah, although people get mad, they're like I didn't see the end coming at all canon like just relax, yeah, just enjoy yeah, half that show wasn't canon yeah, I mean get over it, it's just fun.

Speaker 1: 1:09:23

Yeah, it is fun. It is fun. It's a precursor to the rest of it. Yeah, relax people. Relax. I heard Relax people.

Speaker 2: 1:09:30

Relax. I heard that they want to do like another Trek, like Origins of Trek. I'm like don't we have enough Origins?

Speaker 1: 1:09:42

of Trek.

Speaker 2: 1:09:43

Yeah, I know, we got Enterprise. Now we got Strange New Worlds. We've got First Contact. Yeah yeah, I'm like what else do you all want, right?

Speaker 1: 1:09:56

okay, so is that all we watched and read and um did?

Speaker 2: 1:10:01

yeah, that's all I watched, and what did I do?

Speaker 1: 1:10:05

that's a boring tale, well I meant because I was talking about the clue app. Oh yeah yeah, that's a lot of fun to play. Uh, not getting any money from them, but if they want to give me any money for putting it out there with the five followers, I wouldn't say no they also have a monopoly, one which is also incredibly fun. Sponsorships yeah, we should, but we are. I don't even think you're gonna be approached. Oh whack, until you get a certain number nail polish sponsor.

Speaker 2: 1:10:42

Nail polish and true crime I'm wearing orly and cadillac, or so wink, wink, wink, send me an email so our uh next book is Hell's Half Acre. Hell's Half Acre.

Speaker 1: 1:10:58

I do not remember the author's name and I don't have the book in front of me. I will put that in the show notes.

Speaker 2: 1:11:03

It's about a serial killer.

Speaker 1: 1:11:05

It is about the Cape Bender, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's about the Bender family and it's.

Speaker 2: 1:11:21

We're gonna go over that in episode 16, 16, 16 and I will put more information in the show notes. So if you want to read along, we'll have all the information, including the author's name, that you might want yes, I will, I will put that in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 1:11:30

For sure, the book is still in the car. That's why I don't have it yeah legit. So that's the book and please like, follow subscribe send, download our very lonely email.

Speaker 2: 1:11:48

Tumbleweeds are blowing through it yep, send us an email.

Speaker 1: 1:11:51

Uh, we're also on instagram just tell us hi, we're also on instagram and facebook. Yep and um, I guess that's it. Yeah, yeah, we'll put that information in the show notes as well. Okay, bye, all right, bye.