Details Are Sketchy
A bimonthly true crime podcast, in which two friends share an unsolved disappearance or unsolved case, a crime they're most intrigued by, and talk all things true crime.
Details Are Sketchy
Love Is With Your Brother Mike: Thou Shalt Not Kill
In this episode, Rachel tells us the story of a murderous (and all-around POS) minister and Kiki brings us the disappearance of Melanie James. Then we discuss "Hell's Half Acre: The Untold Story of the Benders, a Serial Killer Family on the American Frontier" by Susan Jonusas. We end with a brief chat about "daddy" Pedro Pascal, Star Trek, and The Mummy.
Our next book is "The Witch of New York: The Trials of Polly Bodine and the Cursed Birth of Tabloid Justice" by Alex Hortis, which we will discuss in episode 20.
Sources:
Mike Tabb
Killer Clergy Season 1 Episode 4: Thou Shalt Not Kill
"Minister Gets 55 Years in Prison for Wife's Murder" My Plainview
"Killer Clergy: Men of the Cloth Who Murdered Their Congregants" by Jeff Trusdal
Marla Dawn McCown Tabb - Find A Grave
"Who Killed the Preacher's Wife? Murdered Whilst Her Baby Slept...the Tragic Marla Tabb by It's Cici (Youtube)
Melanie James
“10 years has been a long time,” Farmington, New Mexico family, authorities seek info about 2014 disappearance of Melanie James (NBC News)
If you have information call: 505-599-1068
Socials:
Instagram: Details Are Sketchy - @details.are.sketchy
Facebook: Details Are Sketchy - @details.are.sketchy.2023
Instagram: Kiki - @kikileona84
Instagram: Rachel - @eeniemanimeenienailz
Email: details.are.sketchy.pod@gmail.com
I'm Kiki and I'm Rachel, and this is Details Are Sketchy A true crime podcast, and this is episode 16. So, besides our usual stuff, we also have our book Hell's Half Acre, which we'll talk about later. I guess we start with the missing person, right, which is me, marie James. Her nickname is Mel. She was last seen 4-20-2014. Oh no, yeah, she's 21 years old, or was 21?
Speaker 2:years old. How can you go missing on 4-20?
Speaker 1:That's awful, it is awful, she'd be 31 today. She is a Native American female, about 5'5", 120 pounds. She has dark brown hair with blondish highlights, brown eyes. She has a tattoo of a spade on her right index finger. The clothing she was last wearing was a blue bandana shirt, light blue jeans and black sneakers. She was last seen walking down 20th Street in Farmington, new Mexico, so it's a fairly local one for us.
Speaker 2:God damn it, farmington, what? The fuck are y'all doing Her 10th?
Speaker 1:anniversary of her disappearance. So they're reopening the case, or I guess it was never closed, they're just focusing more on it. Imagine you know you're reopening the case, or I guess it was never closed, they're just focusing more on it.
Speaker 2:I can just imagine. You know you're 21 years old, it's 420. You probably just want to relax and have a good time. Yeah, then some awful shit happens, yeah. That's horrible, it is horrible.
Speaker 1:So what was her name? Again, Her name was Melanie Marie James. Melanie Marie James.
Speaker 2:Well, I hope you're okay out there. Melanie Marie James. Sorry if I sound awful.
Speaker 1:Once again you guys are probably used to this by now she's sick again. She's a mama, so she gets sick a lot, although we don't think it's from your kiddos this time, although maybe, maybe you just carried it in.
Speaker 2:They're not sick, but that carried it in. They're not sick, but that doesn't mean they're not little right, that's true, I'm doing the case you are doing the case. I'm doing a case and yeah, it's a it's an interesting case too. I bring you the case of Michael Tabb, a killer priest.
Speaker 1:So right down Rachel's alley.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was like what kind of thing am I interested in talking about? Wow, we all know I like really against religious corruption, so Doesn't get much more corrupt than this guy. He's a real fucking piece of work. Okay so In 2002, in Troop, texas, in Eastern Texas Town, which is part of the Bible Belt, 41-year-old Michael Tabb is a newly appointed minister of the town's first United Methodist Church. After years of preaching on the road as a Navy chaplain A Navy chaplain he has decided to settle down and take like a more permanent position. I guess Navy chaplain is a more permanent position, but you know and they were both devout Protestants their entire lives Marla was born on April 26, 1967, in Beaumont, Texas.
Speaker 2:Marla grew up in the church and was a dedicated member of the church community, going on to become a youth and music director while attending college at baylor university. She was known to have a beautiful soprano singing voice and she performed in musical theater during her time in college, such as taking part in the musical te, I think. Three times, three different seasons, they said. So Michael Tabb decided early in his life to devote his life to the church and as soon as he was eligible to join the Navy he did so and became a Navy chaplain. So this job took the couple all over the world. Wherever they went, the couple worked together in church-related work, doing missionary work, sorry to say. Wherever Mike was stationed, marla would work on that, such as when he was stationed in Japan. Marla learned Japanese so that she could proselytize to the Japanese people in their own language. So I mean, it's given me a big sigh and a big eye roll, because you all probably know how I feel about missionarying and proselytizing, but they were passionate about it and Marla was said to be someone who didn't do anything half-assed my words, not theirs. She was known to tackle any task wholeheartedly and thoroughly.
Speaker 2:The couple settled for a while in a naval base, camp Lejeune, north Carolina, where their first son, jonathan, was born. In 2002, mike was honorably discharged from the Navy and found work as a minister, in his role as pastor at First United Methodist Church in Troop, texas. In the weeks preceding the move, marla revealed to a friend she was apprehensive about it. Quote we were taking, we are taking a church, and I don't know whether that's good or not. She was reported to have said so on August 5th 2002, only seven weeks after the couple had arrived in troop and six weeks after the birth of their second son, a call was placed to 911. Uh-oh yeah, michael Tabb was 42 years old At the time when Marla was 35 years old. They had a two-year-old son and a six-week-old infant. Marla had had a difficult labor with her second son, david, and he had ended up being born via cesarean section, which had resulted in an extended hospital stay and a difficult postpartum recovery for Marla.
Speaker 2:The call was placed by Michael Tabb who, sounding frantic, reported that burglars had broken into his home and beaten his wife to death. When first responders arrived on the scene to the parsonage behind the church where the pastor lived with his wife and their two kids, they found the door was open and walking in they found a pool of vomit in the hall, outside the bedroom. In the bedroom, they unfortunately found Marla Tab's body. She had been beaten badly. Her face was unrecognizable. There was blood everywhere, including on the ceiling. The detectives described the smell of blood and death in the air. Detective Joe Rascoe reported to the show Killer Clergy that he had witnessed more than one bludgeoning death, but that the death of Marla Tabb stood out as particularly brutal Right away.
Speaker 2:Some things in Michael's story didn't quite add up. There was neatly folded laundry in the living room and undisturbed toys. One dresser had been ransacked, as if someone had attempted to make the scene look like a robbery. However, there was jewelry sitting out in the room but none of it had been taken and there were no valuables missing from the home. Amateur mistake the front door was open but it didn't appear forced. None of the windows were forced or broken. Detective Joe Rasko described the crime scene as eerie. It didn't have the typical appearance of a break-in, but the bedroom showed clear signs that there had been a struggle. None of the details suggested a purely random crime. It definitely looked, at the very least, as if it would have been someone that marla knew and willingly let into the house.
Speaker 2:The more detectives joe roscoe and pamela dunklin investigated, the more the facts weren't adding up. Joe roscoe said that that uh. In commenting to his partner Pamela Dunklin, something stinks. Detective Pamela Dunklin described the heartbreaking moment when she had to call Marla's mother and inform her of her daughter's tragic death. She said she didn't know how to say it to her and tried to avoid the moment. But Marla's mother could sense that something was wrong and she guessed that her daughter was dead and I said that's a horrible thing to guess or intuit. Mother could sense that something was wrong and she guessed that her daughter was dead and I said that's a horrible thing to to guess her into it. And it made me wonder if she kind of knew that michael tabb was no good and could possibly hurt her daughter one day or maybe she knew because the detective told her she was a detective yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's also true. Yeah, if a detective or a cop or somebody calls you, then you know that you know it's not good yeah, the show, at this point uh said the detectives didn't have a motive and uh, they would not guess that the killer would be the one person they would never suspect, which I was like really Wait, who said that the show? Like the show, they were like they would never guess that it would be the one person they would never suspect because he's a pastor.
Speaker 1:Pastor or minister.
Speaker 2:I don't know honestly, I don't know if Methodist called pastor or minister. They kind of use those terms interchangeably in the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah. Because, no, a man of God could not possibly, obviously not, and even like one of the detectives the Pamela Dunklin detective said at one point she was like I wouldn't think, because he seemed like such a good man. I'm like, did he really? Yeah, because it turned out he wasn't a good man, he was quite a piece of shit.
Speaker 1:Just because you're in the church, you're part of the church, you're a clergy person doesn't mean you're not a bad person. Person doesn't mean you're not a bad person. I think, if anything, the last 24 years have proven that, with the catholic church and their pedophile priests and all these pastors and reverends and whatever murder, it's a good disguise. It's a great disguise, just like teachers. A lot of pedophiles are teachers as well.
Speaker 1:That's kind of what they do um also, the christian faith has been using god as an excuse for war, so why wouldn't they?
Speaker 2:commit murder exactly because they can just use your head. They can just be like oh well, god has forgiven me and I've changed my ways can't see me, but I have a giant eye roll.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she does.
Speaker 2:But it's true. That's how they excuse it away and how these people get away with not getting charged for things that are serious crimes.
Speaker 1:I know it's one of the things that annoys me the most about some of these true crime shows is that they're always like it couldn't possibly be pastor, it couldn't possibly be the blah blah. Yeah, yeah, it fucking can, and that would be my first they also pulled the not in our small town oh, I hate that one too. Yes, in your small town everywhere?
Speaker 2:isn't that even like more prevalent in like small towns? Because there's there's like limited employment, there's little limited things to do besides, just sit around and do drugs. You can't do anything, there's nothing to do, there's nowhere to go. But anyways, especially because he's the husband, you should be the first suspect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, regardless of the fact that he's a pastor.
Speaker 2:Here's my little rant. I said aren't they familiar with priests? And rampant sexual assault and abuse of the church covers up see we have the same mind, rachel that's why we're here doing this today.
Speaker 2:So when they did interrogate mike, they found that he had an alibi, that he had spent the day across town with his parents before coming home to find the open door and the bludgeoned body of his wife, at which point he said that he had stumbled out of the room thrown up and then went to check on his infant son, who was asleep in the crib and and that did corroborate the thermos vomit in the hall. Um, mike's mother also backed up that alibi, confirming that mike and his older son had come to visit that day. Investigators continued their investigation. So they didn't. They didn't really. They were like well, I guess that's a dead end. And come to visit that day? Investigators continued their investigation. So they didn't really. They were like well, I guess that's a dead end.
Speaker 1:So they just took mom's word.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, basically, and later on it's kind of revealed that I mean he did do that, but like, what's the timeline? They didn't really like they didn't check the timeline, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Jesus, the timeline. They didn't really like they didn't check the time. Yeah, exactly, jesus, I mean that that too. Would like keep somebody on the persons of interest list if it's only family members, particularly close family, particularly mothers, who are alibying their well and as we'll kind of get into this a little in here in a little bit, okay.
Speaker 2:Um. So he claimed to become distraught, threw up in the hall, which corroborated the vomit evidence. The police found in the scene checked on his son and then called 9-1-1. Investigators continued their investigation. They went on to question neighbors, friends and parishioners. They soon discovered that Marla Tebb wasn't as popular and loved by the community as first blush would indicate. Although Marla was known to be outgoing and confident, she didn't mesh well with her church community. According to County Sheriff Jamie Smith, she ruffled feathers. She didn't mix well. She seemed to be unhappy. Yeah, no shit.
Speaker 1:How did she ruffle feathers? Or didn't they elaborate Well here?
Speaker 2:they do elaborate slightly, sorry. Parishioners felt she was stuck up aloof, uncaring and ungrateful when the family had first moved in. For example, some parishioners had voluntarily decorated the parsonage in anticipation of their arrival. But according to the testimony of Sheriff Jamie Smith, it was reported when Marla stepped into the parsonage and saw the funeral home director's wife on her hands and knees cleaning the baseboard, all she had to say was complain about the color of the paint and the decorations.
Speaker 1:Okay, maybe don't do that in front of other people.
Speaker 2:But it's also important to recall that Marla arrived in troop when she was heavily pregnant. Well yeah, and shortly afterwards she gave birth to the couple's second son, david, via C-section. The difficult labor and recovery caused her to be more isolated from the community in the few short weeks she was in troop prior to her death.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't realize they were only there for a short time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were only there for seven weeks before this happened. Wow, and she was only there for a week before her son was born. Yeah, she had to recover from major surgery on top of the rest of all that postpartum ickiness and take care of both the kids all by herself, while mike was known to be out and about in the community doing churchy stuff, getting to know all the parishioners, mingling with the community because your wife doesn't need you yeah, no, no, she's got the family thing under control, even though she's just had her uterus cut into, and it's probably like, like you still have to recover, like you still have like all the postpartum bleeding and all this stuff, as if you had like a vaginal delivery.
Speaker 2:I'm sure our listeners are very happy to learn about this, if they didn't know it already. Plus, you have like the, the surgery site that you have to take care of and you have a toddler and a toddler, yep, and an infant, awful, awful. And they said that her house was like clean, like she must have been so fucking exhausted. I can't imagine, no, but the husband. That would make me aloof and unhappy too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially not having any help, yep, because it doesn't sound like anybody came over to help no. Because you know they're good Christians, so they stay away.
Speaker 2:Well, and part of the point of that is she didn't fucking know anybody Right?
Speaker 1:They still should have, even if she did badmouth their wallpaper or whatever.
Speaker 2:No, they should have like, brought her like casseroles or whatever churchy people do yeah.
Speaker 1:Question when in history is this 2002. Okay, because I was going to say he could have just written an email to the town and been like hey dudes, my wife had a difficult delivery.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be absent for two weeks. Well, I doubt he would have had that level of consideration towards her.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, no, I know You're right.
Speaker 2:So I said poor Marla must have been exhausted and felt like shit. And I said anyone would act like a bitch under those circumstances.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've never been pregnant, never intend to be, and I can imagine myself being a bitch, yeah, like that, yeah, and we will see that Marla had even more reason than most to be cold and upset.
Speaker 2:But this reputation led the investigators to look into whether the killer could have been a disgruntled parishioner. Ugh, looking to whether the killer could have been a disgruntled parishioner, however, they concluded that the violence of the crime was on par with someone who intimately knew and personally hated Marla. The level of disdain she had in her relationship with her husband's flock just didn't match up. They just didn't know her that well. Yeah, the repeated violent blows Marla had endured must have come from someone who truly hated her. Yeah, but investigators had a big problem they couldn't locate the murder weapon.
Speaker 1:Do they know what the murder weapon is from autopsy?
Speaker 2:They, so they knew it was something long and heavy and sharp. Long and heavy and sharp. Long and heavy and sharp and they are going to discover what it is. Okay, gotcha. Until they searched the carport adjacent to the tab's parsonage. There they found a table laying on its side with one leg removed, an outline still in dust where the table had previously sat on all four legs. The missing table leg was the right size and weight to have inflicted the wounds Marla had endured.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it couldn't have been random, because that's thought out yeah, someone put the table on its side and removed the leg.
Speaker 2:Yeah, detective Joe Roscoe recalls being fairly certain they had determined their murder weapon, but they still couldn't find it. They were making an extended effort to find the missing murder weapon, sending out daily patrols by car, on foot and even by horse, but after weeks of searching nothing was turned up. Oops, wait, horse.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, I guess it is rural. Yeah, yeah, that's what they said by horse Nice Like Dudley Do-Right coming up.
Speaker 2:That would be great if she had been strapped to the railroad tracks, but maybe not so great to spot like a random missing table leg. Yeah no, but after weeks nothing was turned up. However, during their search for the missing weapon, the detectives also decided to dig into some other directions and to look into Michael and Marla's past when Michael was a Navy chaplain. So when they did that, they learned some disturbing truths about Michael and about their marriage. They learned that their marriage wasn't doing well and guess what? It was all Michael's fault. He would disappear for days on drinking binges, going to strip clubs, topless bars, and then he would check into hotels with prostitutes.
Speaker 1:Nice guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What a gem. Yeah, he's a real sweetheart. So wait, the cops found this out or they know this already.
Speaker 2:Yes, they found that out While they were looking for the murder weapon. But after a few weeks, when they hadn't found it, they decided to just dig around more and they uncovered this information. They should have looked at it quicker yeah, one would think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, marla discovered this. She had confided in her sister that while doing Michael's laundry she had found in his pocket a torn-out advertisement for Call Girls. When Marla confronted Michael about the ad, he claimed he had confiscated it from a sailor that he had been counseling. But she could tell that he was lying and obviously it doesn't fit with his behavior Like he's disappearing for days going on these drinking vendors and stuff.
Speaker 2:The investigators found his history of using prostitutes going to strip clubs, topless bars. He had been caught more than once and Marla had long been aware of his problematic behavior. While in public he had retained a reputation of being pious and devout, in private he was known to be a heavy drinker who frequented strip clubs and cheated on his wife with prostitutes. Detective Pamela Dunklin recalls that Michael Tapp initially seemed polite and well-spoken and she hoped that he was not involved because he quote seemed like a nice man. Pol, polite and well-spoken and she hoped that he was not involved because he quote seemed like a nice man.
Speaker 1:Polite and well-spoken also does not make you a good person.
Speaker 2:No, it doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 1:It just means you're well-spoken yeah.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, those hopes would prove futile. When officers brought Michael to the station, he initially seemed polite, cooperative and calm. He freely answered all of the detective's questions. However, something struck Detective Joe Rasko as unusual about the encounter. Quote you would think a preacher, after his wife's been killed, would talk a little bit about God. Why did God let this happen? Or whatever he never once made? That is bizarre. It is, that's true. Christians, especially a fucking pastor, you would think, nonstop talking about God. Yeah, they probably wouldn't fucking pray with the cops or some shit. Yeah, they probably wouldn't like fucking like pray with the cops or some shit. Yeah, detective Pamela Ducklett added quote I was worried about the kids he never once mentioned. Oh my God, what are they going to do without their mother? What am I going to do without my wife? Nothing, yeah. The detectives speculated. The pastor might still be in shock, but they were starting to suspect a more sinister motive behind his reactions. No shit, sherlock, they keep giving him the benefit of the doubt. I know.
Speaker 1:Would they give that to anybody else? No, god no-transcript.
Speaker 2:With each revelation, michael Tab was looking like a stronger suspect suspect. And with these growing concerns, a friend of the family came forward to testify about a new incident that raised even more questions. Mike and marla. Well, okay, actually I saw two the two. What the the killer? Clergy's episode seemed to indicate that it was an outside source that testified about this story, but, uh, another video that I watched seemed to indicate that it was, uh, michael himself who confessed this story. So I'm not sure which one. It was interesting. Well, do you remember what the other it was? It was a crime youtuber. Oh, okay, so yeah, where was I?
Speaker 1:somebody was given a story about michael yes, I know, I'm just trying to find my place in the in the thing sound effects.
Speaker 2:so mike and marla had gone for a drive with their infant son is what it does when they have babies, because that calms babies down. Yeah, and they started arguing. She either got out of the car on her own choice or Michael kicked her out of the car. They're not clear on which one it was. He probably kicked her out.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The show sent mixed messages about that, because they said in the voiceover that she chose to get out of the car, but then in the little acting thing that they showed that, they showed him yelling get out to her. So I'm like, which is it? Yeah, so she got out of the car and then opened the back door to get out her baby and Michael allegedly became afraid that Marla would take his child away forever. I mean, no shit, she's going to take the baby. Like he doesn't know how to take care of the fucking baby.
Speaker 1:No, um not, especially since he's a a drunk Like this guy.
Speaker 2:I'm not saying that like fathers don't know how, but this guy doesn't know how to take care of his baby. No, anyway, really. So he released the parking brake of the car to prevent her from grabbing the kid, he says, and it knocked Marla to the ground. Michael insists that it was an accident, but the detectives were not convinced and believe that this may have been an initial murder attempt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, finally, finally. Took you all long enough attempt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, finally, finally Took y'all long enough. So they demand a more detailed account of his hour-to-hour movements. See, finally they're getting to it Now. They want to know his hour-to-hour movements on the day of his wife's death. But the previously cooperative pastor suddenly shuts up and demands a lawyer. According to Detective Pamela Dunklin, evidence kept the previously cooperative pastor suddenly shuts up and demands a lawyer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, According to Detective Pamela Dunklin, evidence kept coming in looking like he may have had something to do with it. Once Michael felt the heat, according to Pamela, he stopped cooperating with detectives. If he did tell that story voluntarily, it's like why would you volunteer that information? Yeah, Like whoops, I accidentally released the parking brake and almost killed my wife there.
Speaker 1:Unless they like asked him something and he thought maybe somebody told that story or something that's true, that's true, cops can ask kind of leery questions like that.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, that's true, that's true, cops can ask kind of levy questions like that. And they didn't show any of the footage in the interrogation room or anything like that. In fact, the show had very little footage of him at all.
Speaker 1:That's interesting.
Speaker 2:At this point Marla's sister came forward with some even more incriminating testimony. Marla had recently confided in her sister that she had gone into the bathroom and found her husband in the tub with her two-year-old in what she called a compromising position. Marla believed that Michael was molesting their son. Compromising position marla believed that michael was molesting their son. So they didn't really elaborate on what that compromising position was. But I'm not sure if I want them to right um, but also like who did?
Speaker 1:who told them that? Marla told her sister that marla told her sister that like a couple of weeks, police got you.
Speaker 2:She told them that a couple of weeks before she told her sister that Marla told her sister that Like a couple of weeks and then the sister told the police Gotcha, she told them that a couple of weeks before she told her sister that a couple of weeks before her death.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, gotcha.
Speaker 2:Okay, so, uh, now the police believe that they have a motive for Michael to murder Marla, because if Michael feared that Marla would reveal him to be a child molester, it could ruin his career and reputation and it would provide a motive for him to kill her. Yep, so now detectives have the motive, but they still don't have enough to prove that he killed her Right, so they ended up having to release him. However, one day shortly after, detective Joe Roscoe was driving through town at about 4.30, and he reported that he suddenly got a hunch. He drove to the town's only gentleman's club, and whose pickup truck should he find in the parking lot? None other than Michael Tabbs. Uh-huh, less than one month after his wife was brutally beaten to death, he was in the strip club in the middle of the day. Well, yeah, the police continued to monitor Tabbs after that and found that he was spending most of his days in bars and strip clubs, and he was basically the same behavior he had been doing before and his nights in cheap hotels with prostitutes. Detective Roscoe reported that examinations of his hotel room indicated signs of sexual encounters as well, that there were tons of beer cans littered all over the room.
Speaker 2:Detectives really had decided that Mike Tabb was the only suspect who had the means and the motive to kill Marla Tabb. But they still had to find definitive proof. They didn't have enough to prosecute Until forensics turned up some interesting findings on Michael's truck. Up some interesting findings on Michael's truck. So a section of the truck cab seemed as though it had been cleaned, while the rest of it was still dirty. Oh God.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Clean it all folks, as though someone had tried to clean up a crime scene. Detective Joe Rasco reports they processed the truck with luminol, which is the stuff that like reacts with iron blood Right. And it will light up if our listeners don't know what that stuff is. Yeah, and the whole truck bed lit up like Christmas. Wow, detectives wanted to know if Michael Tabb wasn't guilty. What was he doing with blood in his truck bed?
Speaker 1:Was there a hunting season, by any chance?
Speaker 2:They didn't mention that, but it didn't matter, because DNA analysis revealed that the blood was Marla's. Huh, okay, so they were actually able to find some blood in the truck bed. It didn't matter, because DNA analysis revealed that the blood was Marla's.
Speaker 1:Huh, okay, so they were actually able to find some blood in the truck.
Speaker 2:Yes, like he didn't clean well enough.
Speaker 2:Nope, okay. Detectives hypothesize that Mike must have thrown the bloody murder weapon in the back of the truck and then disposed of it at a later time, and then disposed of it at a later time. So, while they never did find the murder weapon, but they found that blood and that was a very compelling piece of evidence. And then they found one more piece of evidence that they needed to place him at the scene of the crime. So what they did is they confiscated his clothing and shoes, which what an idiot Like you didn't fucking get rid of the clothes and shoes that you were wearing, right?
Speaker 1:Sounds like he probably hid behind his job. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, seems like he was just an arrogant stupid.
Speaker 1:He was that too, yeah, because like he was just an arrogant stupid.
Speaker 2:He was that too, yeah, that too yeah, because of his job, and it does seem like they were like oh, he seems like a nice man, he's a man of God and that town does seem super religious and so, yeah, he probably thought they would never suspect or prosecute him.
Speaker 1:Well, it did take them time. Yeah, it sure did, so he wasn't that wrong.
Speaker 2:It took them way longer than it should have. Yeah, so they finally confiscated the clothes and shoes that he was wearing the day of the murder and the crime scene forensics. They said a spot of blood on the top of the shoes, but I found a picture of the top of the shoe and it wasn't just one spot, it was a bunch of spots. Oh, yeah, so if there was blood on the bottom of the shoes, he could have just picked that up from walking through the crime scene Right, but it's on top. But the blood on the top indicates that he was the one wielding the murder weapon and having the blood spatter rain down on him. Yeah, so, Finally, on August 14th 2022, Michael Tabb was arrested for first-degree murder. He agreed to plead guilty for a reduced sentence, but before he could face sentencing this is the part they would release him he was living with his parents. I'm like why this guy is arrested for first-degree murder? You can live with your parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, until you face trial.
Speaker 2:They're not fans of women Apparently not and they are fans of religion. So there you go.
Speaker 1:That's true. Oh no, he won't run away.
Speaker 2:I guess he didn't run away If he had killed her with a gun, maybe they would have given him an award of some kind.
Speaker 1:Don't come at us, Texas.
Speaker 2:On May 13th 2003, michael Tabb, who had been staying with his parents, was required to attend court to enter a plea of guilty. However, when he didn't show up for the hearing, police went to his parents' house looking for him and his parents reported that he had left for a walk at 8 am in the morning and didn't return.
Speaker 1:So I was right, he did leave.
Speaker 2:Yes, but he didn't go that far. No Detective.
Speaker 1:Pamela Dunklin, did he go to a strip joint?
Speaker 2:No, that would have been funny, although that would have been funny. Yes, detective Pamela Dunklin recalled her daughter calling to tell her that someone had been stabbed at the University of Texas at Tyler. A man had been stabbed three times in the neck, and that man turned out to be Michael Tabb. He claimed to have been attacked by a man with a knife. His injuries were severe and significant enough, with a lot of blood loss, and he had to be taken to the hospital. Police initially thought maybe there was a connection to Mike's attacker and to the murder of his wife, but a quick investigation revealed that his neck injuries were self-inflicted, as witnesses came forward and testified to see him hiding behind some trees, stabbing himself and then dropping the knife in a nearby lake.
Speaker 1:Dude stabbing yourself in the neck. How do you know you're not going to hit something vital?
Speaker 2:Well, they don't know whether or not he was just trying to deflect blame or to fall suspect, or if he was trying to kill himself. Or if he was genuinely trying to take his own life to avoid the consequences of his actions and we probably will never know.
Speaker 2:But whatever his motive, it wasn't successful. Yeah, because he made a full recovery. His motive it wasn't successful? Yeah, because he made a full recovery and on september 29th 2003, he stood trial and was sentenced to 55 years in prison for the murder of his wife. It should have been life, but whatever.
Speaker 1:Well, it would be life for him if, unless he gets parole yeah, I mean it is pretty much life.
Speaker 2:But you know, I wanted to say you know, instead of just like saying like a finite, you know amount of years.
Speaker 1:God, why did Texas decide on 55 years?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not sure about that.
Speaker 1:Because normally they're like yeah, let's death penalty, like well.
Speaker 2:I guess I guess part of his guilty. He's not going to get the death penalty, Although I'm not sure why do they his part of this deal he does. Although I'm not sure why do they need to make a deal with him. It seemed like the evidence that they had on him was pretty compelling.
Speaker 1:Like probably because he's a pastor.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I guess. So that's true. Probably, juries in Texas are probably reluctant to convict Um, so anyway, and they?
Speaker 1:might not let the evidence, not the evidence. Reluctant to convict, so anyway. And they might not let the evidence, not the evidence, but the like. I mean prosecution doesn't need to prove motive, but juries like motive. So maybe they wouldn't have let the motive in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they might not have let the motive in because he was never. It was never investigated the claims of sexual assault of his son. So although it fucking should have, been?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but she didn't make that accusation except to her sister, right? No?
Speaker 2:no, yeah, but they could have done like an examination with a kid and seen, you know, like rape kid or whatever. Mm-hmm, they don't like to do those ones. Yeah, and the kid himself was only two, so it's not like he could really testify.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean, if he was only touching the rape kit probably wouldn't do anything, that's true, that's true, that's true.
Speaker 2:It's not known exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 1:He could have been masturbating or just.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't want to go in there.
Speaker 1:No, no I know, Gross.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll take it out, but he could have been doing things that were not yeah, you're right provable by a rape kit. Very good point. And I just close by saying this is a story of a super selfish, awful man who made everyone else around him his wife and his children suffer the consequences for his own selfishness and greed. Now his children have to grow up without their parents. Uh, it disturbed me. Well, I mean good riddance to the father, but they have to grow up without their mother yeah, do we know where they went?
Speaker 1:like which grandparents or sister?
Speaker 2:so here's what they said. They said Detective Joe Roscoe said in the killer clergy show that the children were in the care of a good Christian family. Right, Right. I was like didn't you take the moral of this whole story? Good christian family doesn't mean anything. Yeah, I wanted to know that they were in the care of a relative like like her sister, yeah or yeah, her like her, her parents like, not his fucking side of the family.
Speaker 2:I don't trust those fuckers but, so I don't know what like are they, even in the care of relatives?
Speaker 1:like it didn't really make that clear I would assume so, because you would like to to keep kids in the family yeah, you would think, but it's so vague.
Speaker 2:So I really hope that they're in the care of, like, her sister does that even mean?
Speaker 1:does that even mean a good Christian? I don't fucking know, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm like, am I supposed to be comforted by that? Yeah, so hopefully they'll be okay. And what an awful ending that another innocent woman had to pay the ultimate price for the quote sins, if you will of her husband yep and that's it. That's all I got. What a fucktard yeah. I don't know if I had mentioned it, but they think that what set him off is that she confronted him about the sexual assault of their son.
Speaker 1:I think you had mentioned that at the beginning, or maybe you didn't and you told me in the car I wasn't 100.
Speaker 2:I wasn't 100, sure, but they think that she may have confronted him about it and maybe said that she was gonna go to somebody about it. Yeah interesting. So yeah, really shitty yeah see.
Speaker 1:That's why I didn't watch the clergy show, because I've seen that advertised. Yeah, but I didn't see it because I didn't want to be pissed off by all the. He couldn't have done it because he's a man of God, bullshit, right.
Speaker 2:Stuff makes me mad. I even had trouble watching it. They were like you couldn't watch this in the US and I was like what? And so I had to find it on a weird website in order to watch it. It was on Prime, but it said this video is not available in your country. Well, that's weird, yeah I was like, is somebody too offended about like killer, like this video is currently?
Speaker 2:unavailable to watch in your location yeah, that's weird, super weird, right, yeah, but I did find it, I did find it, I did find it online. So Well, that's good, suck it Prime. The opening was pretty funny. It was like this like whatever, like CGI, like glass, stained glass window, and then it turned into like a skull and shit like that. Oh, that's funny.
Speaker 1:I was like that is pretty funny.
Speaker 2:There was like a cross. It turned into a knife. Yeah, I was like I can see why that might piss off the religious folks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, although that may not be the reason it's not available here.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean because it doesn't say country, it just says location. That's true. Sometimes Prime just does bullshit like that. Just like Netflix, takes things off.
Speaker 2:Not available in our country of New Mexico. We're our own special country.
Speaker 1:We are our own special country. I mean, most of the United States thinks that.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's true, it's true, I was reading people's stuff about that. Yeah, with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's probably just our family members.
Speaker 2:But if you're not now, you know New Mexico is a state, it is.
Speaker 1:New Mexico is a state. It's been a state for a hundred and.
Speaker 2:I think our viewers are probably. Why do I keep saying fucking viewers, our listeners are smart enough to know that New. Mexico is a state.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Hells.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, no, I got to do my. Oh yeah, you're a missing person.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's see. So again, the missing person is Melanie Marie James. I don't have much more to add to it, but, once again, melanie was last seen on April 20th 2014 in Farmington, new Mexico. It was her sister that actually saw her last. She was wearing a blue bandana, tank top, light blue jeans and black and white Converse shoes. Four days after Melanie disappeared, her purse was found in an alleyway and turned into police.
Speaker 2:Yes, not good.
Speaker 1:Reminder, she would be 31 now and let's see. If you have info you can call 505-599-1068. And I am not sure. I believe that's the Farmington PD. I think Dateline Missing in America has some info, so I'll put their website up. Okay, if you're interested in listening to that or reading it or whatever.
Speaker 2:Well, hopefully Melanie is okay. Hopefully Melanie is okay and hopefully, regardless of the outcome, her family will get some answers soon and get some closure on what happened to her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so episode 16, so it's our book episode. Our book was Hell's Half Acre, the Untold Story of the Benders, a Serial Killer Family on the American Frontier, by Suzanne Jonasis. Yep, and I don't know what'd you think.
Speaker 2:I thought that it was interesting, I thought that In a good way, or a bad way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, in a good way. I mean, I wasn't like I completely hate this story. You know I completely hate this story. You know I was intrigued by it At first. It didn't draw me in Initially I was like, oh, it's the Wild West. But then it did pull me in. I thought it was interesting how everybody just consistently thought they were so stupid and they were out here killing all these people and they're just like, oh, it's not them, they're just stupid. They're just these stupid German-speaking morons.
Speaker 1:Well, they mainly thought that the simpleton was John yeah, because he acted like it. Yeah, but they kind of called the whole Well, that mainly thought that the simpleton was John, yeah, yeah, because he acted like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they kind of called the whole.
Speaker 1:Well, that's true At times.
Speaker 2:they called the whole family stupid or like the. All of them except Kate, kate or whatever, they wouldn't think that because she's a woman, they wouldn't think that she, and because she's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rachel, don't?
Speaker 2:you know pretty people don't kill, just like religious people don't kill, so they're either too pretty and girly or too stupid, or too German, I guess. Whatever, too, whatever, yeah, and they constantly thought, no, it can't be them, it can't be them because they're too this and they're too that and it's like, well, obviously it was them right and and, instead of I don't know looking at I don't know any kind of rational type of investigation, they just kind of went with their gut yeah with whatever they're like.
Speaker 2:well, I just don't think I'm see I'm doing a stupid accent. I just don't think it's them because they're german, they're illiterate or whatever and and they're just not going to investigate, even though, like their place was super nasty and nasty, smelling Like you think that would be like an automatic like when you go to their place and it smells like fucking like dead and nasty, isn't that a tip-off, that like something's going on?
Speaker 1:Not necessarily. I mean they could just be dirty and gross. I mean it was a time without refrigeration so they could have had dead animals in the back or very true, but if you're looking for bodies, at least it's worth a look around but they weren't looking for the bodies.
Speaker 1:That's the thing. They weren't looking for bodies. The only body they found, they found because the boys found them. They weren't looking until they actually had to look for the bodies. It's that small town thing, right? They don't want to believe that anybody they know could possibly kill, so they want it to be the cattle thieves. They want it to be, you know, the indigenous peoples. They want it to be anybody outlaws, right, they want it to be anybody, but the people that it could actually be, even though they're stupid because they're part of the community or thought to be stupid. I don't think they were stupid.
Speaker 2:No, I mean clearly they weren't. No, I mean, they fucking got away.
Speaker 1:They did get away Forever. Yeah, they fucking got away. They did get away forever. Um, yeah, and it turns out the smart people weren't so smart. Yeah, bad alex man? Yeah, or alexander, whatever the fuck is, yeah alexander, I was.
Speaker 2:So I was. I was very heartbroken over the one gentleman and his little girl. Oh, william was no, not william. The.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh, the the yeah, the william was the husband of mary, with the kids, the doctor alexander's brother. Yeah uh, james right, james something yeah, I think so yeah, and his little girl, yeah, that one was really sad.
Speaker 2:I was like I was like surely these jackasses are not going to kill a little girl, but they did, they sure did. I'm like these fuckfaces, mm-hmm. I didn't. Yeah, because that James guy wasn't even like rich or anything, was he? No, I'm like why? No, I'm like why?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought that was interesting. I was disappointed that the author didn't put forth another motive, because whenever you hear about the benders, they did it because of money, but she kept saying these people didn't have any money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so it couldn't have been money. She did say repeatedly that a number of their victims didn't have money.
Speaker 1:Right, so that couldn't possibly be the motive, but she didn't offer another motive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I wanted to know. I'm like what is in it for them? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe they're just a serial killer family. Yeah, maybe Kate just really enjoyed it, or I wonder if she even did. Maybe it was Pa, who knows?
Speaker 2:Who knows, or I wonder if she even did maybe it was pa, who knows who knows who.
Speaker 1:Who was everybody, because it seems like the whole kate bender did it comes from newspaper clipsing clippings that back then you couldn't trust the news. I mean it's questionable with her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know she's obviously like the most, like beautiful, the most intriguing member of the family well, it's gonna sell papers, that's yeah to latch on to. She had that whole mysticism thing going on. She's pretty like of course they're gonna latch on to that, yeah, but yeah, who knows like who? Yeah, which one is the main ma?
Speaker 2:like you know they're like she never talked to anyone, or like you. It's hard to say like who's them? Is there a main one? Maybe they're just all a big team and they just all fucking love serial killing?
Speaker 1:yeah, what else did you like about it? Or find intriguing?
Speaker 2:or disliked um, I thought, yeah, I thought it was interesting how easily they were just fucking like tricked by shit, like they were tricked by that guy who was like the bender's partner, uh, bill mcpherson was that? I don't remember the one who like it was like frank's brother, yeah frank frank was like the friend and then the brother.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who's also a?
Speaker 2:yes, and whatever led them on a ride for two weeks they were like yes, yeah, you led them on like a wild goose chase yeah like they spent a bunch of fucking money, yeah, and he was like what he was like a con man too, he was like their friend, yeah, and they're just like trusting him and shit. Yeah, I'm like on what?
Speaker 1:basis. Yeah, it feels like it's again one of those like small town things where you think you can trust people. Yeah, you know where you don't really want to believe that people can be taking you for a ride or you believe so greatly in your ability to sniff out bullshit that you're able to be conned.
Speaker 2:And then that last thing that frustrated me was about those two poor women who had to stand trial because that one chick who fancied herself a detective had a dream, or whatever.
Speaker 1:She's a psychic dude, Don't you know that stuff's true.
Speaker 2:And it turned out she was like bribing them to like testify against each other and like what choice did they have?
Speaker 1:Because they're shit poor, they're poor, yeah, yeah, and they probably never heard of the Benders.
Speaker 2:And then they're like oh fuck, this is like like a hanging crime. Yeah, yeah, like what an awful situation to find yourself in Thank God for the good lawyer. Yeah, it's true, who is?
Speaker 1:willing to represent them for free.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's true. Yeah, the lawyer was like this is bullshit.
Speaker 1:He's kind of the hero of the story. Yeah, he is. Yeah, I felt bad for Mary. I know there's a lot of Marys in there. Mary married to William, william if you didn't read the book.
Speaker 1:Yes, if you didn't read the book. William was one of the victims of the Bender family. He was looking for his neighbors, man james with his little girl, and he got killed in the process. But his wife mary, I and nothing worked out for her. She lost her husband, who by all accounts she loved dearly, and then her sons were basically like taken I mean without like forcibly being taken, but taken, uh, from her to be raised by the dad, the grandfather, and then the daughter didn't want to have anything to do with it and she went out into back to kansas instead of staying in illinois, and then she just kind of married and like gave up on life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, what can you do? Like there's not very many options? Yeah, you know, and it seemed like she seemed like she was devout.
Speaker 2:It seemed like she was trying trying to be whatever an honest person and it's a not a not a very easy position for a woman who's trying to do the quote right thing. That's why, like, you gotta do shit like I'm not saying like serial kill, but if you want to like get ahead in life, you have to like pretty much be like an outlaw or whatever, like yeah, you know how they talked about how kate like she could just dress in men's clothes and take on these different personas and shit like that and I was like well, you know, this is like she's a shitty person, but like how much more freedom does she have than all these other women?
Speaker 2:and all these women kept fucking dying in childbirth. They were like this woman died in childbirth and that woman died in childbirth and this woman died in childbirth. Or like this woman died in childbirth and that woman died in childbirth and this woman died in childbirth. And I was like God, what a shitty time to be a woman.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it definitely was.
Speaker 2:And then what's? Which one? Was it Alexander? Who, like his wife died? And then he like fucking turned around and like he was like, oh, that sucks.
Speaker 1:And he turn around, marry like a 17 year old I don't know if he married a 17 year old, but he did marry, but it was a while after. He didn't do it right away.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, it's sound the way she phrased. It sounded like it was, but it was. It was a 17 year old are you sure that wasn't ed?
Speaker 1:because ed was. Ed was in his early 20s and he married a woman that he had only known a little while Maybe, because I think Alexander married later. Oh, I felt bad for William too, because he survived that horrible concentration camp POW camp yeah and was hung by his thumbs. For how many hours. Yeah 18 hours or something. Jesus.
Speaker 2:Only to get killed by the Vanders, Killed like less than 10 years later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, even Laura Ingalls Wilder tried to cash in.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was another thing that I was telling you about, about how people could just lie their way to success. Even fucking Laura Ingalls Wilder Just lie her way into success. Even fucking Laura Ingalls Wilder Just lie her way into becoming like a fucking world-renowned author. And now we know like half that shit she said wasn't true. But it doesn't matter. She's long dead now. She already cashed out and lived a long, happy life. Didn't she live to be in her like late 90s or some shit? I think I recall her living like an insanely long time. Who is this?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, laura Ingalls Wilder. Yeah, she did live a very long time.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was also impressed that Almira lived to be like 93. I was like good for you, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:It doesn't say the age he says, it says in the years after his wife's death, alexander remarried and moved to Denver, colorado, where he was busy establishing a real estate business. At the time, news reached him of the situation unfolding in Labatt County.
Speaker 2:Okay, who married a 17-year-old then?
Speaker 1:Somebody definitely somebody did then, um, somebody, definitely somebody, did like. I felt like if anybody, if it was one of the brothers, they did. But they were close in age, yeah, not like a dirty old man marrying a 17 year old, okay fine, they're exonerated um well, I kind of liked how she fleshed out the history to put the crimes kind of in their time and place yeah because I don't think people realize that, but a lot of times murders and the way they happen are influenced by the age that they're in.
Speaker 1:Yep, very true, I thought it was funny how like she was talking about how like everybody else in the United States was like Kansas is dumb, like all the people in Kansas are dumb, yeah, and Alexander like basically ruined his own political career. Yeah, to like prove that they weren't. And then the benders come along.
Speaker 2:He's like well fuck yeah all that for nothing, it's true um, he was trying to be noble he was noble by doing a not very good thing. And you know what got me too is how dedicated the politicians were to like rooting out corruption in their system. I was like man, we could use some of that today. You mean in New Mexico, like in fucking the whole states.
Speaker 1:That's true. New Mexico's still got our We've still got our corruption yeah, no, no, certainly I'm not saying.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying here and, like you know, nationally as well, and in all the states, there's lots of corruption and there's no like whatever.
Speaker 1:If somebody came forward and be like I accepted a bribe, then they would be like well, anyway, it's true well, it is true, um no, I just I meant for the listeners that new mexico has had very much a history of oh yeah corruption?
Speaker 1:um yeah, including getting mixed up with the mob. We almost became Las Vegas. Did you know that? No, I didn't know that. Yeah, they were here during, you know the Cricket Coogler case? Yes, so some of the suspects were the mob and the governor, because the governor was in with the mob trying to get them to have their casinos here.
Speaker 2:Would have brought a lot of money in.
Speaker 1:Sure would. We would not be the poorest state anymore besides. Mississippi. We're last in everything, pretty much. Yeah. What can you do, except for maybe what vehicular homicide?
Speaker 2:or something DUIs do, yeah, except for maybe what vehicular homicide or something duis old people.
Speaker 1:We got a lot of illiteracy. Oh yeah, uh, let's see, I'm trying to look it up. What would I? How would I look it up? New mexico first in historic landmarks.
Speaker 2:We've got a lot of historic landmarks Is New.
Speaker 1:Mexico, the first state? That's somebody's question. No, we're not even close to being the first state. We're somewhere in the 40s, aren't we 40 second, I think, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what we're first in. I'm sure we're first in nothing good. Maybe alien encounters yeah, that's true. Or Sure we're first in nothing good. Maybe alien encounters yeah, that's true. Or a number of conspiracy buffs. Number of cults Number of cults.
Speaker 2:There you go, although maybe it's California.
Speaker 1:They got more space, that's true. More people and more people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're definitely up there. There is on Las Cruces Community Watch. There's an ad for like a body double, for like a middle aged man actor, for shooting an A24 film in TRC and they showed a picture but it's like blurred out, but it's clearly Pedro Pascal.
Speaker 1:Yeah who told me that Pedro Pascal was here, that he's filming? Yeah, you didn't tell me, no, somebody told me. I'm telling you now. No, I heard earlier this week that there is a movie being filmed with Pedro Pascal. Up in it's in TRC, trc, yeah.
Speaker 2:If we hop up drive to TRC right now, maybe we could.
Speaker 1:We could see Daddy.
Speaker 2:Pedro, we could stalk Pedro Pascal. Well, he's yummy, he is pretty yummy.
Speaker 1:And such a nice guy. He seems like a nice guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he does seem like a nice guy, like a genuinely good guy. Yeah, that's one thing about the internet is it ruins some illusions about certain people but other people. Then you're like oh, this is a really nice person, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:All right. So since we're talking about Pedro Pascal, I assume we're done talking about the benders.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, okay, I guess. So, unless you have any more insights, I don't have anything insightful to say. It was a fun ride. Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 1:I enjoyed the. Yeah, it was a fun story. The what do you call it? The audiobook. I had both the hard copy and the audio.
Speaker 2:If you're interested in serial killing and and history, if you're interested in the Wild West Western frontier, history and the frontier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a good one. Kind of puts things into perspective. Okay, so have you watched anything? Read anything?
Speaker 2:Finally finished Picard. Okay, it's only three seasons, so, and it's done, done. Yeah, it's done, done. So unless they make a movie like. Patrick Stewart wanted. I'm not sure if they will, but it would be really cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it would be.
Speaker 2:And now we've been watching Star Trek Lower Decks, which's like a cartoon oh star trek, but it's awesome. Yeah, it's very funny, um, and it's it's, it's like an easy watch so especially since I've been so tired and just passing out then it's. It's really not that big of a deal if I like miss a little bit. Yeah, you know, I've been trying to get through episode six for like three nights and I keep seeing the beginning and then passing out before the end.
Speaker 2:But but yeah, it's, it's fun. Um, yeah, it's, it's like canon Trek, but yeah, it's like a cartoon like kind of Futurama style and shit like that, so cool. Yeah, it's like a cartoon like kind of futurama style and shit like that oh cool. Yeah, it's nice, and I have been meaning to finish discovery, but I'm like I need more wakefulness, so I've gotten through season three and now I think they're on five now is discovery with christopher pike, or is that a new show?
Speaker 2:Christopher, oh, that's Strange. New Worlds oh, have you watched that at all? No, I haven't watched that one yet. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I haven't either. That's on the list too.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I have to. I figure I should probably finish Discovery before I embark on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like I have to.
Speaker 2:I figure I should probably finish Discovery before I embark on that. I was like I had to think about. I'm like Christopher Pike I've put the knee to the face but yeah, yeah, yeah, he's in strange new worlds, I believe.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's going to break my heart when they show him getting hurt. Yeah, I'm sure it will, or maybe not. Maybe it's early enough in his life that it's not gonna do that.
Speaker 2:Oh wait I think pike is in discovery too.
Speaker 1:He might be, but I thought he had his own show.
Speaker 2:But strange new worlds is like his main show. His main show okay, I think it's a different actor. So many actors, yeah, and so many spock actors too. Like there's a different actor. So many actors, yeah, and so many Spock actors too. Like there's a different Spock actor in Discovery. Spock is also in Discovery.
Speaker 1:Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the Discovery.
Speaker 1:Spock is pretty hot, like Leonard Nimoy hot or the other dude hot, different, different, hot than both of them. Who was the Spock in the movies I can't think of his name Zachary Quinto.
Speaker 2:Zachary Quinto, so he's just a different hot yeah. Okay, I guess they're all hot, but in different ways.
Speaker 1:Now you're turning red, so are you 'll Spock all at once. Rachel wants a reverse harem of Spocks, perhaps.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't say no to that, I have to admit that's funny. Oh my god, I wouldn't say no to that I have to admit that's funny, oh my.
Speaker 1:God, anything else.
Speaker 2:That's all I've been watching. I've been reading stuff. I already talked about Hala last time. I read Mary again.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I will read it this week.
Speaker 2:And I enjoyed it, but I'm not going to talk about it because then you will be spoiled and you aren't supposed to read it.
Speaker 1:I am, I will, and if I don't read it this week, I will take it to the beach with me next week.
Speaker 2:And I am currently reading the book I was telling you about, strange Sally Diamond by Liz Nugent, ireland, and it's about a lady whose father dies and she incinerates his body in her barn because she thinks that's what he wants and it turns out that obviously she's not supposed to do that but she's been isolated her whole life and she doesn't really know a lot of things her whole life and she doesn't really know. She doesn't really know a lot of things and it turns out that she was like a kidnapping victim when she was a kid and she has been raised by her psychiatrist and basically isolated and she's learning about the world and there's situations which I can't really elaborate on or you're going to get spoiled. But it's really good, it's really interesting and yeah, I recommend it.
Speaker 2:So far I'm not finished with it, I'm like Can't really elaborate on or you're going to get spoiled, but it's really good, it's really interesting and, yeah, I recommend it. So far I'm not finished with it, I'm like 70% through, but so far it's really enjoyable. Cool, so Okay, that's it. Yeah, and I read the Hell's Half Haker book and I read I did no reading, bought some new books.
Speaker 1:yeah, I did not read, um, it's my favorite thing to do, yeah, um, what else? Oh, I watched, uh, while doing the coloring app thing that I have a show. I cannot remember the name of the show, but basically it's like terrorism, close calls, like the secret agent not secret agencies, we know about them, but like NSA, fbi, cia, mi5, and the German equivalent know um and other uh groups like that, yeah, who have, since 9-11, in some shape or form, uh, caught these terrorist attacks before they could happen, which would have been, in some of those cases, worse than 9-11. Some of them pretty damn close to them, almost happening, which is a little scary to think of. So that's interesting.
Speaker 1:And they made an interesting point in one of those episodes, which is that we're getting into a generation, or we now have a generation, that doesn't remember 9-11. So they're getting pretty loosey-goosey with, like security and stuff, right, like they're not gonna. For them that's not an issue that the rest of us had to deal with with our Whatever, because we've diverted all of these terrorist attacks. You know there really haven't been any in their lifetime, at least not here in the States.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So that was an interesting point, because it is like I I teach students who are not alive on 9-11 right they don't know what that was like. They don't know how much the world has changed since then, yeah, or how much of a fear some people still have of that? What else did I watch? I watched something else, and I cannot think of the name of it or what it was about.
Speaker 1:So clearly it wasn't that good, fantastic, but yeah, I mean it was an interesting show. It's interesting to see how, no, finish your thing and then I'll go. It's just interesting to see how investigations like that are done, you know, and how close things are. Like we they don't. They obviously don't tell people right, because they don't want to scare the population, so they just do it. And then you're like you're on that train that somebody was gonna blow up and they're like days away from blowing it up, right, yeah, that's interesting. Okay, what did you want to say?
Speaker 2:I forgot that.
Speaker 1:Uh, I watch hedwig with jay hedwig and the angry inch. Yep, that's a good one, yeah it is a good one.
Speaker 2:I love that movie. Yeah, yeah and I was listening to the soundtrack and Jay was like what's this sad music? And I was like it's Hedwig. And they were like, is that a band? And I was like, well, it's a band from a movie. And so then I told them about it and they were like, oh, that sounds pretty good. And so we watched it and they liked it, which is great.
Speaker 1:And they watched the whole thing, which means that they liked it.
Speaker 2:It is a good movie.
Speaker 1:It is sad, but it is a good movie. Yeah, my favorite song is the one from Greek mythology about how we used to be combined together and then we're split apart by zeus, because we were too strong together and about to take over olympus yeah, and it's also kind of the creation story of our belly buttons I like that one a lot and I like the sugar daddy one of course you do the uh, the myth thing actually is a myth.
Speaker 2:It comes from, I think, the symposium yeah, I, I thought that I had seen like an interview, um with uh, what's his name? James cameron, not james cameron, but john cameron mitchell. Um, where he was talking about that, it was based on actual Greek mythology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So Plato's Symposium, which is all about love, if you want to read about what is love and why we love, and all that crap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mm-hmm. So watch Hedwig and the Angry Inch if you haven't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good one, it's really good and uh yeah, Okay, that was it.
Speaker 2:But I, just when you were like I watched something and I didn't remember, then I remembered that I had watched Hedwig.
Speaker 1:You're funny. Oh, the one I remember. Yeah, uh, it's like world's most wanted. I don't think that's the name of it, but the show is like all of these people that are wanted all over the world for various crimes like genocide and ethnic cleansing, and the white widow, yeah, who's the plotter of all of these really terrible terrorist attacks that happened in the early 2000s?
Speaker 2:And you're going to go into that in a future episode, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I plan on doing the White Widow. Yeah, what a horrible horrible person. But at the same time, you're like you're smart, yeah, I mean, and she's still not found. Yeah, horrible horrible person. But at the same time, you're like you're smart, yeah, like I mean, and she's still not found.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like they, I, they, they think they know where she is, but which is amazing given, like the visibility of everything in the world now yeah, I mean I they, they're like, and they're like 99.9% sure that she's in Somalia, yeah, but she's in Al-Shabaab territory, yeah, which they can't get to.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And Somalia, while better is still a bit of a lawless land, Right, but she's our age, my age, a little bit older than me, I think. Yeah, it's an interesting story, so we'll learn about that.
Speaker 2:Maybe next time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we'll see. Got to record it early because I'm going to celebrate my 40th birthday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's exciting.
Speaker 1:Off to Cali. And then CrimeCon CrimeCon's going to be exciting.
Speaker 2:The next time after an episode, what's this one? 16, episode 18, we get to hear about your Crime Con adventures.
Speaker 1:Yes, I will hopefully have met somebody famous. Yeah, because I got the platinum badge, which means I get a three to five minute like personal meet and greet with somebody. Yeah to five minute like personal meet and greet with somebody. Yeah, and I didn't pick the 10 I was allowed to to pick because I was like, well, I only know these like five people, I don't know who anyone else is, and I'm already gonna have a hard time making awkward small talk for three to five minutes so hopefully it's either matt murphy, paul holes, lisa simpson uh, I should say Yardley Smith and the Small Town, dicks, john Walsh, which will be a group one if I get that one I'm not laughing about Dicks or Ashley Bainfield.
Speaker 1:Who are you laughing about?
Speaker 2:I'm laughing about Small Town Dicks.
Speaker 1:Okay, jesus, you have such a gutter brain. Still it boggles me. I am the smut reader and you're the one who said it's in a gutter brain. I still it boggles me. I am the smut reader and you're the one who said is in the gutter. Yeah, that dick is also a, a nickname for richard, or it used to be a nickname for richard I used to be so embarrassed when my grandpa would be like dick roth, nice to meet you. I'm like grandpa, you can't say that anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, I was thinking about. I was thinking about that when they, they, uh, we watched. I watched the mummy a few weeks ago with my sister, cause it was in theaters again and the and uh is that why everybody's talking about the mummy, or was it just in theaters here?
Speaker 1:Is that why everybody's talking about the mummy, or was?
Speaker 2:it just in theaters here, because I feel like I saw it everywhere. I feel like it was in theaters everywhere. Oh, interesting, and Brendan Fraser's character. His name is Richard and he goes by Rick and I was like at that time, wouldn't he go by Dick?
Speaker 1:Yeah, most likely he would have been Dick, but they knew their audience.
Speaker 2:Of course they can't call him Dick. No, no, no.
Speaker 1:That's funny. I forgot his name was that. Yeah, so I guess that's why I've been seeing the mummy stuff all over the place lately on social media. Is it an anniversary?
Speaker 2:I don't know, it was probably maybe 25th, I think, or something like that. They should make a new mummy.
Speaker 1:No, that is perfect. They should not mess with that. Leave it alone. They're already messing with everything.
Speaker 2:It is perfect. I just want to see more brendan frazier reprising his I know, but they're he will.
Speaker 1:He wouldn't be in the new mummy if they remain the mummy, he would be okay, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:I want to see brendan frazier, just to be clear.
Speaker 1:I want to see a new mummy with brendan frazier yes, so like a another sequel when Brendan Frazier and Raquel Welsh is that her name, rachel Weisz. Rachel Weisz are older.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and their older son and they're still being fucking awesome. Yes, that would be nice.
Speaker 1:Let's see some awesome middle-aged people. Harrison Ford can do it and should yeah, they really should. Brendan frazier's on the upswing yeah, again you should tell oh, he's yummy too, right, even as a dad he's he's still fucking adorable, he is totally adorable dog face he does.
Speaker 2:He seems like a genuinely nice guy too and his sons are cute, like I mean, they're like super young. So I'm like I can't look at you because you're like a baby yeah but they're quite handsome.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's nice like are they baby babies? Are they teenage babies?
Speaker 2:no, they're like they're. I think they're like in their 20s.
Speaker 1:They're not, oh they're, so it's not illegal for us to be like they are grown.
Speaker 2:I just like they're, you know. Yeah, they're young to me.
Speaker 1:I'm like they're too young for me, yeah, because we're not middle-aged men handsome yeah exactly they take after their daddy. Yeah, when did daddy become a gross word? I mean, it's not a gross word, but it's like I did it become like a smutty and did it become like a sex? Word. Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2:I like a daddy, but. I think it's the Gen Zers. I don't know what's going on with them or maybe the older millennials. We like the daddies we are older millennials.
Speaker 1:I know we're the one writing the romance novels, the smut novels I writing the romance novels, the smut novels I didn't do it.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, I'm not crazy about daddy, but I kind of like, I kind of like zaddy, zaddy, like zaddy have you heard that one?
Speaker 1:yeah, they're just a better dressed daddy yeah, but it's like it's.
Speaker 2:It's different enough that it it's not daddy, it's daddy.
Speaker 1:I'm like that's okay, like yeah, I read it so much in the smut novels that I can't see daddy with a straight face yeah yeah oh my god, yeah, um, wow, no, no daddy's in my household, so I guess that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's everything. How did we get on to the mummy and brenda?
Speaker 2:oh the dick thing yes, dick, although, although I wouldn't hate it if hate it if Brendan Fraser repeatedly had to say dick.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't either. That would be funny. Yeah, so anyway.
Speaker 2:Yes, have you seen those things where you can like. You can like pay actors although you probably can't pay Brendan Fraser, he's too like up there for that but you could pay actors to do like a little video for you. You pay them like money, like whatever, like $300 or $500 or however much, depending on like the worth of the actor, and they'll do do like a little personalized video for you how interesting.
Speaker 2:Um, what is the name? Uh, andrew j robinson, who plays like garrick at deep space nine. Somebody paid him to do like a little video for a facebook group, I mean star trek shit posting.
Speaker 1:He did like a little personalized was he dressed up like garrick huh? Was he dressed up?
Speaker 2:no, he wasn't, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:No, he was my favorite gay boy yeah, but he did do like a.
Speaker 2:It was just like a little couple of minutes, but it was really nice, yeah. So, and I was, I was, I was like I can't believe you're in a video group, you know like it's like thousands of people in the fucking group, right, but just somebody in the group got drunk and just like paid him to do it. Nice, yeah, drunk and just like paid him to do it nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he was, I think, the start of my thing for voices, yeah, of like crushing on certain people just because of their voice yeah, so I think I met him.
Speaker 2:Apparently, if you, you could pay him to do a video for you two, or if we had whatever I think they said $350 or something.
Speaker 1:Maybe they could do the intro to our podcast. That would be so cool. If I can get a full-time job, I'll pay him.
Speaker 2:That would be really fucking awesome that would be really fucking awesome. And Jerry Ryan's costs $500. Oh okay, top, that would be really fucking awesome. That would be really fucking awesome. And jerry ryan's cost five hundred dollars. Oh okay, that's not bad, jerry ryan yeah, wow, I was like well, babe, if I really scrimp and save, I can get like a message from jerry ryan, because jay thinks jerry ryan is really cute she is really cute, she is really cute.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she is really cute. Yeah, jay is always like seven of nine, more like seven of five.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's funny. Yeah, it's still one of my biggest regrets of my teenage years, because I was so uncomfortable with myself.
Speaker 1:My grandpa, bless him, who could not stand sci-fi of any kind, let alone star trek, took me to a star trek convention in anchorage, alaska, and it was andrew robinson and it was alexander sadig, or sadig alfadele, I think, is the name he goes by, so dr basheer yeah right and, unlike the original series where it was like 80 to me, each single one, you just had to pay the eight dollars for the, the photo and then you could meet them in line and um they, they were kind enough to sign my thing, but my grandpa wanted to take a picture with us and they were willing, right. But I was so uncomfortable with how I looked and how I was feeling that I don't have a very nice face. I look like I'm irritated and I kind of was. But I was irritated because I was so humiliated with myself. You know what I mean. You know that teenage, uncomfortable, like early teenage, like 13, I think I was probably 12 or 13. You know when you're just like coming into your body.
Speaker 1:And I had big boobs for that age, so I was even more uncomfortable. So that's my biggest regret is like being kind of a dick to my grandpa and also not having a good baby girl, katie. A hug I probably wouldn't let you. Yeah, I wish I could go back in time. I wish I had the confidence I have now as a teenager. I would have rocked as a teenager if I had the confidence I have now.
Speaker 2:How much do you think we have to pay Garrick and Bashir actors to make out?
Speaker 1:To make out. I was going to say to make out with us.
Speaker 2:No, with each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't think that they would do that. Fine, yeah, I regret that. Fine, yeah, I regret that a lot. I also regret not going up to Jimmy Doon For those of you who don't know who that is. That was the original Scotty. Yeah, he was not in the best health he died just a few months after the convention here in, like 2002, 2003 he came out of like he.
Speaker 1:He had been talking, although he could barely speak. It was really hard to understand him, but everything was over and so everybody was going home for the day and we were walking by the stage exit and he was coming out in his little scooty and he stopped and he's a genuinely kind, kind man. He was very kind and I mean, I was a foot away like I could have easily asked him if I could have a picture, and I'm pretty confident he would have said yes, because he's just that, he was just that kind of guy. Yeah, but I was so, uh, so embarrassingly shy at that point in time that I just I didn't do it and he died like two, three months later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you got to see him, I did get to see him, that's really fucking cool it is it is, although it's, it's sad that, like, my last memory of him is that he wasn't doing well, yeah, you know, but yeah, poor guy, he seemed like a really, really really good guy. Yeah, okay, we gotta stop talking about track. This is turning into a track podcast why not A? Track and book podcast Track book crime podcast. All right, so I guess that's it. I gotta take you home, okay, so your family can eat.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think that Jay doesn't want to do this. Marinade. Okay, all right, everybody, I do. I want to squeeze the lemons and the limes. That's your favorite?
Speaker 1:life out of them, it is the best part okay, so we will talk to you next time, okay, bye.
