Details Are Sketchy
A bimonthly true crime podcast, in which two friends share an unsolved disappearance or unsolved case, a crime they're most intrigued by, and talk all things true crime.
Details Are Sketchy
Be Gay, Do Crime - A Gay Celebration for Pride Month
This episode Kiki gives us the story of the disappearance of Katie Ferguson and Rachel brings us the stories of Alan L. Hart, Karl M. Baer, and Lili Elbe. Kiki also tells us about CrimeCon Nashville and we talk about what we've been reading and watching.
Our next book is "The Witch of New York: The Trials of Polly Bodine and the Cursed Birth of Tabloid Justice" by Alex Hortis, which we will discuss in episode 20.
Sources:
Baer, Hart, Elbe
"Stonewall Riots" - History.com
"Karl M. Baer" - Making Queer History
"Karl M. Baer" - Wikipedia
"Trailblazing Transgender Doctor Saved Countless Lives" by Leo Deluca - Scientific American
"Alan L. Hart" - Wikipedia
"Lili Elbe: Danish Painter" - Encyclopedia Britannica
Igla Database
"Be Gay, Do Crime" - Know Your Meme
"Be Gay, Do Crime and Other Shit You Can Say Without the University Censoring You" by Robby Fensom - The Seahawk
"Painting A Woman" by Iolanda Munk - Daily Art Magazine
"Lili Elbe" - Wikipedia
Katie Ferguson
"Kathryn Ann Ferguson" - Solve The Case
If you have a tip : tips@parkcountysheriff-wy.gov or https://www.solvethecase.org/case/2023-8/katheryn-ann-ferguson
Socials:
Instagram: Details Are Sketchy - @details.are.sketchy
Facebook: Details Are Sketchy - @details.are.sketchy.2023
Instagram: Kiki - @kikileona84
Instagram: Rachel - @eeniemanimeenienailz
Email: details.are.sketchy.pod@gmail.com
I'm Kiki and I'm Rachel, and this is. Details Are Sketchy A true crime podcast, and this is episode 18.
Speaker 2:And I'm doing a special Pride Month episode. So hello, hello and happy Pride Month to all my fellow ladies and gentlethems and all you other anti-capitalist queer fey and folk and our straight allies be gay and do crime. Um, so I don't didn't want to talk about, like we're not going to talk about. In case people are like oh, I don't want to hear about gay people getting killed, you're not going to hear about that and you're not going to hear about. You're not going to hear about that and you're not going to hear about. We're not going to hear about any like Jeffrey Dahmer style serial killers today, because that's not the queer representation that we are looking for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so your stories aren't exactly crime, but they were crime at the time. Well, yes, exactly, yeah, crime, but they were crime at the time.
Speaker 2:Well, yes, Well, yeah, we're going to just talk about people existing. Yeah, some queer history and, yeah, the history of be gay do crime, because existing as a queer person has been illegal and is illegal in 64 different countries in the world currently. So we're going to talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yes, but before we do that, I have a missing person. Her name is Catherine Ann Ferguson. She goes by Katie is Katherine Ann Ferguson? She goes by Katie. She was last seen on October 5th 2023 in Truman, arizona. Other sources say the last contact was October 9th 2023. She is 5'9", between 150 and 180 pounds. Her hair is brown, this poster says, but I think it's blonde. In all of her pictures it's blonde and her eyes are blue and, for reasons we'll get to later, most, if not all, of the law enforcement agencies involved don't think she's alive. All of the law enforcement agencies involved don't think she's alive. So this is more of like a body recovery type of missing person, although we hope she's alive All right, you ready?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I mean, of course, okay. So this might be a little bit all over the place because I was really struggling with my organization skills and such. Yeah, the past week, couple weeks just haven't been able to get it together super great, but I have an idea and we're going to attempt to execute it. Yeah, like I said, I don't want to. I've seen people talk about you know doing like a special pride edition where we're talking about whatever like oh, it's a gay serial killer, like how fun, but that's not the kind of fun that you know strikes me as like this is inciting pride. So the phrase be gay, do crime is a term you've probably heard of it, maybe you haven't Used by the LGBTQIA plus community to reclaim queer history and shed light on the history and ongoing oppression and criminalization of gender and sexual minorities and non-conforming people. So some fun facts about the term that I was able to find, although the phrase existed before its online presence to find. Although the phrase existed before its online presence, the first recorded instance of the term be gay, do crime was posted on Instagram by user absent object on September 15, 2016, and featured a photograph of the iconic word spray paint on a wall in Marseille, france.
Speaker 2:On June 2nd 2018, twitter user I don't know how to say that IOA Scarium tweeted an image of an adaptation of a Thomas Knapp's political cartoon with a skeleton holding up a sign whose original caption was replaced with a phrase. Two days later, twitter ISIS Lovecraft tweeted just saw two teenage girls hop the bark turnstile, rub the stairs and start making out, and I couldn't resist the urge to shout be gay, do crimes. And they raised their fists and shouted back Stonewall was a riot. So I'm informing you that the kids are, in fact, all right. The tweet received more than 69,000 likes and 12,000 retweets in one year. On August 10, 2018, gay Star News published a history of this slogan.
Speaker 2:So why do queer people need to shed light on the history and ongoing criminalization of sexual and gender minorities? Why do we need Pride Month and slogans like Stonewall is a riot or be gay, do crime? So the Stonewall riots? We're not going to focus on that, but just a little blurb. Begin the early hours of June 28th 1969, when New York City police arrayed the Stonewall Inn, a gay club located in Grant Village in New York City. The array sparked a riot among bar patrons and neighborhood residents as the police roughly hauled employees and patrons out of the bar, leading to six days of protests and violent clashes with law enforcement outside the bar, on Christopher Street, on neighborhood streets and nearby Christopher Parks. And while the Stonewall Riots weren't the first, certainly not the last such riots, they served as a major catalyst for the gay rights movement in the United States and around the world. So should I talk more about the Stonewall riots, or you think we?
Speaker 1:should. I think a lot of people already know about that.
Speaker 2:So currently, what are the laws on LGBTQIA plus people, legal provisions affecting our communities across the world and grounds on sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression and sexual characteristics? Fresh release in May 2024, laws on Us, a new flagship report by the International Lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and Intersex Association, an NGO Association. An NGO, together with ILGA World Database, follows the footsteps of their previous landmark reports. They're just talking up their own previous reports and basically saying that it tracks the development of legislation and laws that criminalize these categories In 11 legal categories the criminalization of consensual same-sex sexual acts, restrictions to freedom of expression and association, prohibition of discrimination, hate law crime, prohibition of incitement to hatred, violence or discrimination, regulation of so-called conversion therapies, marriage equality and other form of civil unions, adoption by same-sex couples, restrictions on interventions on intersex minors and illegal gender recognition. So there are 64 countries that have laws that criminalize homosexuality. Nearly half of these are in Africa thanks to colonization, and there's like a report that showed that there is a like a direct link between colonies that were linked to Britain and severity of laws that criminalize homosexuality. So the countries that were colonized by Britain have way more severe laws against homosexuality than countries that were colonized by other countries so thanks my ancestors, sarcasm, in case you didn't and I think, 14 countries on which have death penalties for homosexuality.
Speaker 2:I'm going to talk about Lily Elby, who is commonly referred to as the first trans person documented to undergo sex reassignment surgery, although that is incorrect as far as I can tell. She is the first trans woman to undergo sex reassignment surgery. Trans men, carl and Bear and Dr Alan Hart preceded her, and I did want to talk a little bit about them, so I have just a little aside, because that's the kind of we're going on. A rachel, this is a rachel, you know. Come with me on my little little asides.
Speaker 2:Carl M Baer was the first trans person to receive sex reassignment surgery. So Carl M Baer was a German-Israeli author, social worker and reformer. He was believed to be born intersex and assigned female at birth. He came out as a trans man in 1904 at the age of 19, and in December 1906 became the first transgender person to undergo sex reassignment surgery. And he became the first transgender person to gain legal recognition of his gender identity by having a male birth certificate issued to him on January 1907. However, some researchers have disputed his label as a trans man, theorizing that he was intersex and not transgender. You can be intersex and transgender, so that's bullshit. So Baer wrote notes for the famous sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld on his experiences growing up female while feeling inside that he was a male, and together they developed these notes into the semi-fictional, semi-autobiographical I can't pronounce these German words, but the translation is Memoirs of a Man's Maiden Years, published in 1907, published under the pseudonym NO Body. Under the pseudonym NO Body, the book was immensely popular and was adapted twice in the film, in 1912 and 1919. Bear also gained the right to marry, and did so on October 1907. So he underwent some gender-reaffirming surgery in 1906, but the records of what kind of medical procedures he underwent are unknown because those records were burned by the Nazis. Thanks, nazis, for being such fucking assholes that targeted Hirschfeld studies specifically, so we don't know too much about that. Okay, and then the next gentleman we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2:Alan L Hart, also known as Robert Alan Bamford Jr, was an American physician, radiologist, tuberculosis researcher, writer and novelist. Hart pioneered the use of x-ray photography in tuberculosis detection. He worked in sanitariums and x-ray clinics in New Mexico, illinois, washington and Idaho. For the last 16 years of his life he had enmasked x-ray programs that screened for tuberculosis in Connecticut. X-rays were not regularly used to screen for tuberculosis prior to Hart's innovation and are still used for a gold standard today, which has led researchers to believe he has saved countless lives, which is so fucking cool. And I was like how do I not know? How have we all not heard of this really cool trans man who made these, this really remarkable innovation that saved so many tuberculosis patients? He was also a fiction author and published over nine short stories and four novels, which incorporated drama, romance and medical themes.
Speaker 2:Circa 1917, hart became one of the first trans men in the United States to undergo a hysterectomy and apparently there's quite a controversy. After his death, queer societies posthumously identified him as a lesbian who is incognito posing as a man so that he could be in marriages with women. However, throughout his life he asserted that he was a man, that his name was Alan, he sought gender-affirming surgeries, he sought testosterone therapy when it became available to him, and throughout his life he asserted that he was a man, and also his wife, after his death, asserted that he was a man and not an undercover lesbian, and that, uh, they perceive their relationship to be the relationship of a straight couple, and so for for many years, however, uh, they had like, uh like dinners or whatever for it on his behalf under his dead name as a famous lesbian, until some trans activists started to protest and say, hey, this guy is not a lesbian, he was actually a trans man and reclaimed his identity. Yeah, so in 1981, says the Oregon Gay and Lesbian Rights Pack called Right to Privacy began hosting the Lucille Hart Dinner. They characterized Alan Hart as a famous lesbian from Portland and this continued until like the 90s. In the popular 1985 pamphlet, information for the female-to-male cross-dresser and transsexual author and activist, lou Sullivan, listed Alan Hart as a historical figure representing transgender men.
Speaker 2:In October 1994, candace Helen Brown, a male-to-female transgender person residing in Portland, wrote a letter to the editor of Just Out magazine defending Hart's manhood and criticizing the right to privacy dinner. In her letter she said the Right to Privacy Political Action Committee in Oregon has a big fundraiser every night called the Lucille Hart Dinner. When asked if I'm going, I indignantly answer not until they stop using the wrong name and gender for one of our heroes. His name was Alan. He never wavered in his identity as a man and upon his death his widow has continued to insist he was a man. Why would such a straight man be called a lesbian by the gay community when today we would certainly call him a female-to-male transsexual? He was transsexual, or at least a transgenderist, a true pioneer when he was seen as a hero by today's transsexual community. Please don't let him be taken away from us by allowing his old name to be used as though it were a badge of honor. So Margaret Deirdre O'Hardigan called this the opening shot in the struggle to restore Hart's manhood in the Phallus Palace. That's quite a name.
Speaker 2:In 1995, candace Helen Brown and other transsexuals in Portland formed the Ad Hoc Committee of Transsexuals to Recognize Alan Hawk. A representative from the committee, rachel Kotelius, approached the Portland chapter of the Lesbian Avengers and asked if they would like to see a presentation that argued their case. I don't know why they need to say that. They could just say trans woman or trans man. Ken Morris were persuaded to believe that Alan Hart was a transgender man. After attempting to negotiate with the Right to Privacy Commission, the Lesbian Avengers and Ad Hoc Committee, transsexuals decided to protest the Lucille Hart dinner and other events. So eventually they did change it and fix it in March 1996. The Board of Right to Privacy announced they would change the name of the Lucille Hart dinner. According to Max, the articles presented to us were convincing and influenced our decision. Right to Privacy settled on the name Right to Pride for the next year of the same year. In 1999, right to Pride dissolved and many members joined Basic Rights Oregon, a similar gay and lesbian group. They used Hart's name for fundraising in 2000 for the 17th annual Hart Dinner and used both she and he pronouns for him in the pamphlet. I guess baby steps.
Speaker 2:In 2003, the writer Joy Parks described the battle, especially within Portland Oregon LGBT communities, over Hart's identity as extremely ugly, and one of which neither side appeared particularly victorious. Anyway, that's just like a little overview, but anyway, writers in the 2020 for mainstream publications portray Alan Hart rightfully as a transgender man, which is he only ever presented himself as a man. The Oregon Encyclopedia acknowledges that there is a conflict over his identity, but refers to him as one of the first female to male transgender persons to undergo a hysterectomy in the United States and live the remainder of his life as a man. Scientific American referred Hart as a trailblazing transgender doctor in 2021. So I guess that's why. I guess that's part of the reason why some of the sources list.
Speaker 2:Sources list Lily Albee as the first trans person to undergo SRS surgery, but obviously this was kind of an aside so I didn't get to read as much about him. But what I did read about him I didn't see anything. It didn't seem like there was any controversy to be had, that he was very clear about who he was and his identity. Um, it was only after his death that, um, you know, some people decided to interpret it just seems like trans erasure. I'm glad that that issue or controversy seems to have been righted in recent years. But but, yeah, what a cool doctor. And hopefully, now that you know that fight seems to be over. I hope that.
Speaker 2:Anyway, back to Lily Elby. Lily Elby and her wife, Gerba Gottlieb or Gerba Wegener, born December 28, 1882, as Einar we, the Encyclopedia Britannica, claims that Lily lived most of her life as a man. I would object and say that Lily lived most of her life not socially out, not living life publicly as a woman, life publicly as a woman, due to the publicity that both Lily Albee and Gerda Wagner received during their time as public figures and artists. It was Albee's story and the couple's relationship that established the relevance of their transgender experiences within public discourses, so their lasting publicity and social impact were further reinforced by Lily Albee's autobiography. More words I can't say, but the translation is. Translation is From man to Woman. Lily Albee's Confession, which was published in Denmark in 1931, and centers both her experiences of daily life and her transition process in detail.
Speaker 2:Lily Albee and Gerda Gottlieb were where both were exceptional artists first and foremost. Most recently, their story was portrayed in the movie the Danish Girl, which was based on the fictional book of the same name by David Ebershoff in 2000. David Ebershoff. In 2000, david Ebershoff wrote the Danish Girl fictionalized account of Elby's life. It was an international best-selling novel and was translated into many languages. It provided an early fictional account of gender affirmation surgery, which shaped LGBTQ plus literature.
Speaker 2:In 2015, it was made into a film of the same name, produced by Gail Motrix and Neil Laboot, starring Eddie Redmayne as Elby. The film was well received at the Venice Film Festival in September 2015, although it has been rightly criticized for casting a cisgender man to play a transgender woman. Both the novel and film omitted several very important fucking topics, including Gottlieb's sexuality including Gottlieb's sexuality, which is evidenced by the subjects in her very sapphic erotic drawings, and the disintegration of Gottlieb and Albie's relationship after their annulment, believe that Albie was born in 1882 in Velvele, denmark, the child of Anne-Marie Thompson and spice merchant Mogens Wilhelm Wagner, according to the Register at St Nikolai Church. According to the Registry at St Nikolai Church, her birth year is sometimes cited as 1886 by a book about her in which some facts were changedb's life suggest that the 1882 date is the correct one, because they married while at college in 1904, when Elby would have been just 18 if the 1886 date were correct. She was a painter under her birth name Einar Wegner. After transitioning in 1930, she changed her legal name to Lili Ilse Ilvenes and stopped painting and later adopted the surname Albie, the surname Albie.
Speaker 2:Albie met Gerda Gottlieb while they were students in the Royal Danish Academy of Fine Arts in Copenhagen and they married in 1904 when Gottlieb was 19 and Albie was 22. Gerda came from a conservative family, as her father was a vicar in the Lutheran Church. They worked as illustrators, with Albee specializing in landscape paintings, while Gottlieb illustrated books and fashion magazines. Lily Albee's earlier works consist primarily of wide-angle landscape paintings. During this time, landscape painting was considered a masculine discipline, which I thought was really interesting. Her artistic choices, such as wide-angle perspective and the exclusive depiction of untouched natural landscape. This is like I got this information from, like an art scene source.
Speaker 2:So don't think I'm suddenly an expert on art. I just think I'm just like this is pretty. I just think I'm just like this is pretty. Which are both considered distinctly masculine artistic choices within the Danish artistic context of the time. Furthermore, in her autobiography, she described her process of painting in a manner that would have been understood as masculine in her time. This included her emphasis on the frantic, violent process of creation and her identification with bird watchers and naturalists, while painting, which were exclusively male professions at the time. Painting, which were exclusively male professions at the time. Her painting Poplars Along Hobra Fjord is a prime example from her earlier works, which is a wide-angle depiction of a natural landscape with only marginal human influences, and the color palette is predominantly dark greens and browns. Uh, hang on, let me show, kitty, a picture, let me find a picture of this painting. I wish that we we had a little like you know paint painting. Uh, you know show and tell, so we can walk through their paintings as we talk about them.
Speaker 1:Well, if we did these on video.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you better look at me.
Speaker 1:I don't think you're going to look any worse than most of the people.
Speaker 2:So here we go. This is the painting that they're talking about, oh lovely. The couple traveled through Italy and France before settling in Paris in 1912, where Elby could live more openly as a woman by posing as Gottlieb's sister-in-law, scandal Mm-hmm. Elby received the Nahusen's Prize in 1907, which I don't know what that is, I'm guessing it's some artsy-fartsy prize Probably and exhibited at Kuhnsternen's I don't know, I cannot say the word. Effe Sudstilling, the Artist's Fall Exhibition, that's quite a word. Yeah, for exhibition At the VLH Artists Museum in Denmark, where she remains presented, and in the Saloon and Salon d'Automne in Paris.
Speaker 2:Albie started dressing in women's clothes after she found she enjoyed stockings and heels she wore to sometimes fill in for Gottlieb's model actress Anna Larson, who on one occasion had been late for a sitting. Larson suggested the name Lily and by the 1920s Albie regularly presented with that name as a woman attending various festivities and entertaining guests in her house. Gottlieb became famous for her paintings of beautiful women with haunting almond-shaped eyes, dressed in chic apparel. The model for these depictions of petite femme fatales was Albie, and there's a petite femme fatale drawing or drawing painting let me pull that up of Gottlieb, and all the models are LB and she. I guess we'll talk about that more, but she used her as a model quite a bit and that was one of the things that drew me to to this story. It's just the like, the loving way that she depicted her wife and the way that she depicted them together. There's that painting Lovely. All of the women are modeled after Elby.
Speaker 2:As mentioned above, many of Lily Elby's paintings feature bridges, either in the background or in the center. Within her autobiography, she specifically describes herself as a bridge between both man and woman, as well as between the masculine and feminine parts of her own personality. Her painting Ponce sur la Lior is a perfect example of how she used bridges as a metaphor for her transition. At the center of the painting stands the motionless bridge stable above and beneath turbulent waters, transitioning from dark shades of blue into sunbathing shimmers of pastel turquoise. The painting techniques used to convey these different shades and transitions are as complex and layered as its metaphor and show the true artistic skill of Lily Elby. Let me find that painting we're going to look at lots of. I'm going to make Katie look at lots of paintings and I guess I can put some of these into the like Instagram.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's that, oh nice. In her autobiography, she explained that she quit painting because she closely associated it with masculinity and thus regarded it as increasingly incompatible with her female self. This association was, as mentioned earlier, fundamentally influenced by the artistic conventions of the time, which considered Lily Albee's works, through their category of landscape painting, as definitively masculine. Despite ultimately considering her painting incompatible with her transition, Albee did attempt to create a feminine artistic space within her later works. One of her few portraits, Portrait de la Femme, potentially a self-portrait, were in her singular depiction of a woman's chamber titled An Interior of a Boudoir, Luxuriously adorned in warm hues of deep red and sparkling gold. The painting centers on the female form, absent physically, but represented these artistic woman's clothes strewn across the space. I wish that my space were so beautiful. It's kind of.
Speaker 1:Right. How come our clothing strewn about is mess and not art?
Speaker 2:Notably the miniature paintings on the wall serve as the sole direct representation of the female body within the room, showcasing a harmonious fusion between Lily Albee's landscape paintings and the explicit female portraits of her spouse, gerda Wegner. Let's find that interior of a boudoir. I know it's probably not very exciting for our listeners, but if you are listening along, maybe you can look up these.
Speaker 1:Well, you can put them on the thing and label which ones, which that's true, we can do that, and then you can look at them.
Speaker 2:Oh nice, that painting on the wall does look like one of her wife's paintings. Yeah, so gerda, like her spouse lily, showcases an extensive artistic evolution through her artwork and her early art. She was pretty traditional in her portrait paintings and her style was pretty based in realism. But she encountered a lot of restrictions with the conservative Danish art community due to her gender and her affinity for new artistic movements. Her painting Portrait of Ellen von Kohl was explicitly rejected from several exhibitions due to its subtle influences from Art Nouveau in the patterns of the dress and embellishments and because it was painted by a female painter.
Speaker 1:Caught those snooty art communities.
Speaker 2:The portrait became a part of a wide-ranging debate and sparked a flurry of responses in the newspaper Politiken, with opinions both in favor and against the spiritualized, refined symbolism depicted in the image. I bet she loved that. Oh yeah, those who were against it dubbed. Those against it were dubbed the peasant painters. The peasant painter feud demanded reformation and gender equality within the Danish art community. Nevertheless, yeah, the couple's decision to move to Paris. So let's look at this portrait of Ellen von Kohl, which is pretty different than her other later stuff. It's much more like traditional there. It is Very controversial.
Speaker 1:So terribly controversial yeah.
Speaker 2:Just a nice picture. It is painted by a woman yep of a woman, of a woman yep. In paris, gerda found freedom and popularity. Painting now an openly art nouveau and later art deco style, she swiftly became a central figure within the Parisian artistic elite. With the liberation of her artistic style likewise becoming a diversification of her came a diversification of subject matter. Both before and after she came to Paris, she primarily painted women. However, after arriving in Paris, the figures she depicted and their expressions of femininity became more diverse.
Speaker 2:The femininity of the women within her paintings ranged from delicate and traditionally feminine, burdened with lace, tiny wa waist and wide gowns, to the modern and more androgynous garcon women with short hair and loose-fitting clothes of contemporary fashion. Her depictions of women encompass a range from conventional and neutral portraits to placing women within the urban environment and its modernity. She transitioned from subtly suggestive portraits to openly erotic depictions. Yes, she did, Featuring both individual women and couples engaged in intimate activities Ooh, activities. Les Femmes Fatales is an illustration of her more traditional and subtly suggestive portraits. We already looked at that one. The painting features three women with androgynous short hair, minimal jewelry and frilly dresses with makeup. Despite these modern touches, their femininity is emphasized through delicate postures, decorative butterfly and floral motifs. Due to her extensive popularity during her lifetime, Gerda was able to financially sustain herself with her art, and that made me wonder if she was sustaining them both, but I wasn't able to find out that information.
Speaker 1:I would assume so, if L I wasn't able to find out that information I would assume so. If yeah, lb wasn't doing anything, that's what I would assume too, right yeah, because well what else she was modeling for gerda, but well, if she's modeling for her wife, then she wasn't getting paid.
Speaker 2:You're welcome huh exactly, and she quit painting. So she was just being a cute kept wife like she deserved to be of course, the their paintings together are so cute. There's a bunch of paintings of them together and they're such a cute couple, yeah, and we'll post one of them. So she's standing there with Gerda expressing, you know, socially, as a man, and they're admiring, and she's looking at people admiring paintings of herself as a woman and you know, wondering like who's? You know who's this beautiful woman depicted in the painting?
Speaker 2:and it's her yeah so that's got to be a pretty cool feeling, yeah. So she consequently sold her art in a wide diversity of artistic contexts, ranging from prestigious art galleries to postcards and magazines and even commercial advertisements for beauty and cosmetic products. Women with Masks, for instance, is one of her many advertisements, specifically advertising a luxury face brand Creme, tendelice, in a playful and distinctively art nouveau manner. So probably a lot of this time is me looking at these paintings so I can show you. Oh yeah, obviously, one of Gerda's favorite models was Lily. In her autobiography, lily recalls the transformative moment during her transition when the actress Anna Larson couldn't attend a portrait session with Wagner, larson suggested Elby as a replacement to avoid any delays, both Elby and Wagner describe Elby's liberation through the repeated portrayal as a woman, as depicted in the painting Queen of Hearts. That's one of my favorite ones. Despite written sources portraying Albie as passively involved, the portraits reveal a confident and active subject. Queen of Hearts showcases Albie as a self-assured model, gazing directly at the observer with ambiguous defiance. The portrait is rich in detail, capturing the graceful posture, art deco patterns and decisive brushstrokes reflecting wagner's deep care for her art and for lily albie. Okay, let's find that one. It's called Queen of Hearts. Here it is. Oh yeah, I love that one. Jay was like why don't you paint me? I'm like I'm not a world-class painter.
Speaker 2:The outline differences between what is written within Lily Albee's autobiography and her portrayal within her own art and the portraits of Gerda Wagner are particularly important when taken into context into the account in which the autobiography was written and published. Able to undergo gender-affirming surgery, lily Albee expressed experiences that had not been established within popular or artistic discourses and, furthermore, within Danish legal context of the time, both the gender-affirming surgery and the change of name could only be legally accepted if the individual could prove to the judges that to indisputably belong to the according gender. The autobiography should thus be regarded as a testament of what, in the popular opinion of the time, was considered womanhood and how Lily Elby adhered thereto, rather than an accurate and full account of her experiences. This is especially relevant when considering how the autobiography portrays Lily Elby as distinctly passive throughout her transition because, of course, women are passive and how it highlights her definitive rejection of her art within its masculine connotations after the public start of the transition, and how it represents her relationship with Gerda Wagner. The autobiography defines the relationship between Lily Alvinus and Gerda Wagner as an exclusively companionable relationship throughout their marriage. However, an open romantic relationship with Gerda would, at that time, have caused the least transition to be delayed by the Danish authorities. Not delayed, denied sorry, it would have been denied. The reason for this is that the Danish legal authorities did not yet consider distinctions between sexual orientation and gender identity, but instead understood transgender identities in an exclusively heteronormative framework. Boo which it seems highly probable that they did, it would have most likely been restricted to a private context to avoid endangering Lily Elby's legal status.
Speaker 2:Examining their art, both generally and in the sheer number of portraits of Lily that Gerda Wagner created, it is apparent that they had a deeply loving relationship. Notably, their shared presence in works like Capri signifies a profound connection. Okay, I've got another picture to look up. I don't know if you can see. Look there they're standing together on the balcony. Oh, yeah, in Capri, elvie portrays a vibrant landscape with both herself and Wagner. Oh, this is one of Lily's paintings Gazing into its beautyner in turn captures their closeness in portraits like Sir La Rute de super french name, let me look that up de Anna Capuis. It seems like it's the same kind of shit, same vacation or same place that they're at, capui. It seems like it's the same kind of shit, same vacation, or same place that they're at Looks like a vacation to me. Maybe that's their regular life.
Speaker 1:I doubt it.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, that one. I like that one, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:It's very 1920s.
Speaker 2:While these artworks we're getting there don't explicitly confirm a romantic relationship, they suggest a caring and complimentary bond between the two. It's definitely suggestive. Here's another one yeah, looks romantic to one, mm-hmm. Yeah, looks romantic to me, mm-hmm. Here's where it all went downhill.
Speaker 2:So in 1930, albie went to Germany for sex reassignment surgery, which was highly experimental, of course at the time was highly experimental of course at the time. I mean, it wasn't really a choice for her because she was having some bad dysphoria and contemplating suicide before she learned about these options. So while in Germany, she stayed at the Hirschfeld Institute for Sexual Sciences, germany. She stayed at the Hirschfeld Institute for Sexual Sciences, that same Mansfield, magnus Hirschfeld, that same dude. I don't know how this dude fancied himself some kind of expert on these, but you know how white dudes did back in the day they just declared it yeah. So prior to commencing any surgical procedures, lb's psychological health was evaluated by German sexologist Magnus Hirschfeld through a series of tests. A series of four operations were then carried out over a period of two years. The first surgery was performed in Berlin, and it was the removal of her testicles, which is now a pretty routine surgery that is done today. Still, that's a pretty routine surgery that is done today, still Carried out by Erwin Gerban. I don't know if it matters who carried it out. The remainder of her surgeries were carried out by some other dude, a doctor at Dresden Municipal Women's Clinic. All of her medical documents were also ruined as a consequence of Allied bombing raids that destroyed the clinic and its archives. The second operation was to implant an ovary. This is what I mean by this was a real experimental time. Like they didn't have, like you know, just estradiol and shit that they could give her. So they implanted an ovary into her abdominal musculature. In the third they removed her penis and scrotum.
Speaker 2:By this time her case had become a sensation in Danish and German newspapers. A Danish court annulled the couple's marriage in October 1930. As we mentioned before, they could not remain married in order for Lily to proceed with being recognized as a woman. Unfortunately, that led to the dissolution of their relationship. Lb was able to have her sex and name legally changed. She even received a passport with the name Lily Ilse Ilvenes. The name Lily LB was first used in print in a Danish newspaper article written by Copenhagen journalist Louise Lassen for Politiken. That's that same fucking newspaper that was talking shit about Gerber, so I already don't feel good things about them.
Speaker 2:In February 1931, elby returned to Dresden and began a relationship with French art dealer Claude Lehoune, whom she wished to marry and with whom she wished to have children. This is the part where I was also like, was this an expectation of the Danish government? Yeah, because at her age, like we had mentioned in our conversation before the podcast, even if we're going to talk about she had a uterine transplant which ended up causing her death. But at her age, even if it had been successful, like you know, at that time, that's, you know, not an age in which she's probably going to be having a baby, and so I'm not sure if this was, you know, is this really her dream? Like, I know that she expressed that, you know, in her book. But, like you know, the art website mentioned is that she had to express certain things that aligned with the Danish government's view of their expectations of her. So did she really have such a desire to have a child? Or was that something that they really wanted her to express, you know, in order for them to approve? Like, oh, like, she must be a woman because she wants to have a baby, right, you know kind of thing, but either way, I guess we will never know for sure.
Speaker 2:Gerda went on to marry an Italian man after separating from LB, although that marriage ended in divorce shortly after. In 1931, lb returned for her fourth surgery to transplant a uterus and construct a vaginal canal. This made her one of the earliest transgender women to undergo vaginoplasty surgery, a few weeks after Erwin Gorbant performed the experimental procedure on Dora Richter. Unfortunately, following Albee's forced surgery, her immune system rejected the transplanted uterus, which led to organ rejection due to tissue compatibility of the grafted uterus and, ultimately, significant decrease in the leak's immunity, in Lily's immunity, which caused infection and led to her death from cardiac arrest on the 13th of September in 1931 in Dresden, germany, three months after the surgery. So yeah, that really sucked ass. I saw some of the paintings of Lily and the way that Gerba portrayed her and portrayed their relationship. You know I thought was so sweet and of course it reminded me of me and my wife. Yeah.
Speaker 1:God, you're such a romantic. Well, sure you used to not be Very true. Very true, well, you's very true. Very true. Well, you'd cringe anytime anything got romantic.
Speaker 2:I still cringe about other people's romances, just not my own. I'm sorry, love, that I'm not a wonderful painter, so that I can't paint beautiful portraits of you.
Speaker 1:Okay. So my missing person, Katie, had been visiting family in Alabama for the summer and she had been traveling back home with her ex-boyfriend, adam and their two kids. They were going back to cody wyoming um. Her boyfriend, adam, and the two kids made it to cody, but katie did not.
Speaker 1:Katie was believed to be okay in the area of truman, arkansas I think I had said arizona before I meant ark, I'm sorry On October 5th 2023, and possible violence occurred on or before October 9th 2023, when Adam's vehicle, a 1999 Dodge Durango, was seen with a projectile defect on the front passenger door, which is where Katie would be sitting passenger door, which is where Katie would be sitting. She had been reported missing on November 2nd 2023 by her mom and her mom reported her missing to the Cody Police Department On November 4th 2023, someone reported Adam's vehicle abandoned in Park County. Deputies responded to investigate and observed the front passenger seat was missing. A projectile hole was on the inside and outside of the front passenger door, a loaded Glock 45 pistol magazine was in the car and the car smelled of quote putrefied blood, which was later confirmed by lab techs as human blood from an unknown source. While deputies were still investigating, adam walked up to the car with a gas can and said he was there because the Durango ran out of gas and was inoperable. Adam was arrested on November 8, 2023, in Wyoming on suspicion of drug possession and unauthorized use of someone else's vehicle and booked in the Park County Detention Center. A web search indicates that Adam has multiple drug-related arrests heroin and meth and it was reported on November 14, 2023, that federal charges of possession of a firearm by a felon were being added against Adam.
Speaker 1:If you have any information? Oh, I'm sorry I didn't give you information here. So if you have any information, there is a. I'm sorry I don't have all the phone numbers available, but there is a great website called Solve the Case. They have the ability for you to submit a tip and also to uh discuss with other people if there are questions or whatever. It's actually a pretty cool website, yeah, and I believe, if I'm, if I remember correctly, I believe it was started by actual police investigators who understand how the public can help. So that's their tool.
Speaker 2:So Okay, yeah, Well, I hope that you know that she's found.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to warm up my tea and then we'll talk about what CrimeCon and what we've been reading and watching.
Speaker 2:We'll talk about all the silly things and and thank you for your patience in my kind of meandering journey. If you thought that me prepared was meandering and unfocused, so me unprepared, I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoy as Rachel teased on Instagram, a week or two ago I went to CrimeCon in Nashville. It was part of my 40th birthday trip. I went there from LA, and so even before I got to CrimeCon, I got to meet some CrimeCon people, or at least I was on the flight with some CrimeCon people. American Airlines was being their usual dickish self, and so I but it worked out for you.
Speaker 1:It did work out for me because I was like I'm not going to risk this. If American Airlines does what they historically have done, I won't get to Nashville. So I scrapped that ticket. I scrapped that ticket and I went and bought a Delta ticket. It was one of the few that was available right at that point in time when I wanted to leave, and I'm glad I did, because Josh Mankiewicz was on the flight. Yardley Smith, who does Lisa Simpson, was on the flight. Uh, yardley smith, who does lisa simpson, was on the flight along with her husband and brother-in-law.
Speaker 2:They do a true crime podcast called small town dicks and oh lord, aren't you glad that I wasn't there to embarrass you? Yes, I am.
Speaker 1:And then Matt Murphy was there. So somehow I got the balls or the ovaries, or whatever you want to call them, to actually go up to Matt Murphy.
Speaker 2:I mean ovaries are ball shaped. Sure, they're just internal.
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean ovaries are ball shaped, they're just internal. Yes, so I was probably. It was probably because I was sleep deprived, but I managed to get up to Matt Murphy and introduce myself. We all boarded the plane, got to Nashville, whatever.
Speaker 1:The next day, crimecon started, I got the most expensive ticket thingy for CrimeCon, which is the platinum, and with yeah, and with that comes a private meet and greet with someone from crime con. They give you a list ahead of time. You pick up to 10 from that list and then they, the powers that be, pick the person from that list of 10 for you to meet. And I got Matt Murphy and it was almost right away. It was about an hour into CrimeCon starting that I met him and he remembered me, which was nice. I know a lot of people that I've met multiple times who don't remember me. Somebody that doesn't have to remember me, you know, remembered me, so it was awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we talked a bit and I got a picture, but I realized that I hadn't gotten anything signed by him. So after the next day his he did his session. Right after a session was a meet and greet, a public meet and greet. I hadn't intended to go to that one since I had a private meet and greet, but I wanted to get something signed. So I went to that as well and we got another picture and he signed my little lanyard doohickey thing in a bookmark.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And he remembered me, which was also cool, and ran into him a few more times and remembered me. I keep harping on the fact that he remembered me, because it's he remembered my face, which is something, but Matt Murphy wasn't the only one.
Speaker 1:I paid extra to see John Douglas, the Mindhunter guy, do his thing. He talked for a few hours. The lady before I think that's the coolest one. Yeah, he was a lot of fun as fun as true crime can be. But he would, he would meander a lot too. He didn't actually get through. Most I can be, but he would, he would meander a lot too. He didn't. He didn't actually get through most. I don't think he got through a quarter of his actual thing. He was there to talk about conversation with this guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there was a lady before him. His name I forget, and I forget her occupation as well, which shame on me. I will put that in the show notes. Keep wanting to say discovery notes. Uh, the show notes and um, you should look her up because she was a lot of fun too. Then the next day, the same day as the matt murphy session discovery notes who you?
Speaker 1:want sounds adventurous, right um, so the same day, which was saturday, as matt murphy that's the main day, that's when things start from like nine and go forever. Uh, john walsh america's most wanted did his session. He was also a lot of fun and also really sad. He talked about, uh, his life from before his son to his son son getting taken and killed, and then how he became the crime fighter that he became right.
Speaker 2:He also did a meet and greet session, and so he was kind enough to sign two books, one for me, one for rachel no um he wished god bless me, which is is so sweet, but I think it's gonna take a lot more, a lot more concentrated power to for God to bless me.
Speaker 1:He's a lot shorter than I thought he was.
Speaker 2:He's only a few inches taller than me. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I hardly even notice that in the picture, though, because he does seem like he's got quite a presence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, his presence is very big and I was also hunching over. I think I saw the photos of Matt Murphy. I hunch, I know I've always slouched. I didn't realize how bad I hunch until I saw the pictures.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure I do it too. I don't even think about it. Yeah, no.
Speaker 1:I don't think about it either. I'll catch myself like this, like a little old lady hunched over with like a humpback.
Speaker 2:And, like I try to straighten out, this is like probably the first time all month I've thought about my posture.
Speaker 1:Well, I know mine's bad. I also have a curved spine.
Speaker 2:Right who among us? It's because we spend all day hunched over our laptops and our phones and shit.
Speaker 1:True, yeah, although I've had bad posture since I was little.
Speaker 2:I remember my grandma going sit up straight. Yeah, well, sure yeah, my mom too, I think all of our. Yeah, my shoulders are actually curved inward, yeah, so we're all going to be old and we're all going to have like hunched over backs, yep.
Speaker 1:So, besides that, there were a few other sessions I went to. I went to the Clue Awards, which is part of your the two higher badges, the gold and the platinum, hosted by Ashley Banfield, which was cool, although I preferred Matt Murphy's thing, because Matt Murphy, I think, was a little more personal, yeah, and clearly it was kind of his first time doing it, which I liked, whereas Ashley Banfield is very practiced, which is fine. She was awesome, she was really great.
Speaker 2:It was like more scripted-y.
Speaker 1:She was really great. It was more scripted-y. I don't know if it was scripted, but she's definitely See. The thing I like about CrimeCon a lot is that it's people who are not used to being in front of other people. I mean, I know Matt Murphy is a lawyer so he's used to that, but being in front of a jury is very different than being in front of a room full of people, so it's less practice, it's less. He came off as being more normal, whereas Ashley Banfield clearly is used to being in front of a camera, clearly is used to being in front of people, which is fine. Like I said, she's awesome.
Speaker 2:I loved her.
Speaker 1:She liked the more like cash kind of atmosphere. I liked more casual kind of stuff, yeah, but it was. She liked the more like cash kind of atmosphere and what else that's about it there's, you know, I got lots of books signed. Oh, I met Candice DeLong.
Speaker 2:I did meet.
Speaker 1:Yardley Smith and Paul Holes. I listened to her podcast Small Town Dicks no.
Speaker 2:Candice DeLong, or Candice DeLong. Yeah, I referenced her podcast in my Tylenol. Yeah, I've referenced her too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was part of the Tylenol. It was in her early career.
Speaker 2:Cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so met. A few people Went to the session on the Michael Peterson case, which is infamous for its owl defense, so maybe I'll do that crime one of these days. Uh, aphrodite jones brought it in. And who else? Um, oh, the lady sarah edmondson, I think, is her name. She is one of the ladies, or at least the most vocal ladies. I took down neXIVM, that cult, yeah, along with her husband. Those were some interesting sessions as well. Yeah yeah, there was a lot of walking to be had during CrimeCon.
Speaker 2:Yeah Walking, yeah, get your steps in. And other corny dad jokes.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:It is Father's Day tomorrow, so there you go. Happy father's day to all the fathers, or whatever out there yeah, so that was crime con.
Speaker 1:That's all I remember. It's been two weeks, so I've my brain, uh, isn't remembering everything anymore, only the stuff I wrote down. Yeah, I guess that's it. It was an exciting time. If you can afford to go to Crime Con, I highly recommend. The next one, I think, is in Denver. Well, there's a crime cruise in November, but the next like crime cruise, crime cruise with like the cool words and everything.
Speaker 2:I'm excited that you're going on a cruise, because I'm excited by the idea of a crime cruise and, yeah, like I don't know, crime cruise, crime on a cruise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm excited for that too. You're going to the Bahamas, yeah, but the next crime con not crime Cruise CrimeCon will be in.
Speaker 2:Denver. Make sure you bring lots of sanitizing things, because there's lots of germs and stuff on cruises.
Speaker 1:Yes. So the next CrimeCon is in Denver, so if you can go to that, tickets are on sale. Now I don't know if they have any of the gold or platinum ones left. I recommend those. They're any of the gold or platinum ones left. I recommend those. They're very expensive, like the platinum, if you get it early at the crime con is like over 1200. So it's expensive. You don't have to pay it all at once, um, but you do have to put it about half down. But I think it's worth it.
Speaker 1:Not only do you get a private meet and greet, you get to sit up front, you get, uh, for the public meet and greets what I said, that's like half a puppy, yeah, um, uh the um. At the private meet and greets you have your own line. So you get to go first before the standard badges, which for some isn't that important. But for example, john wals, they cut it off at 150, and obviously more people want to meet him than 150 or whatever. So if you have the platinum badge not the gold, but the platinum badge you get first. So I was like the seventh person to meet him. So you're basically guaranteed to meet that person, whereas if you have a standard badge. You're not and you get upgraded lounge, so you actually get like decent food and snacks and drinks and things.
Speaker 2:How was the lounge? Was it loungy? Did they have those? I know, don't destroy me, but like the, you know those loungy chairs. You know what I'm talking about. What the fuck are those things calledy chairs? You know I'm talking about what the fuck are those things called? Like the lazy boys, no, not lazy the fainting couches yeah, like a fainting couch are the ones that the you know hedonists are always like no, locked over on eating grapes no, uh, they did I envision no, they did have couches, but most of it was chairs and tables.
Speaker 1:The benefit, though, is that there are lots of good snacks and drinks.
Speaker 2:And if you get up early enough, at least this time.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it was last time, because last time I had gold. But if you get it this time, you got breakfast and stuff. No, no alcohol, you got to find your own. Although there was alcohol at the Clue Awards. I like the breakfast aspect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a fan of breakfast, yeah well it was. It was like pastries although in normal life, like I, don't eat breakfast that much, yeah, on a vacation life you gotta eat breakfast yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't. I don't really really eat much in the morning at home either. I mean I got to eat something because otherwise I get a migraine, but I don't eat like breakfast, breakfast. So yeah, that's it Highly recommend if you can go. I will be at the Denver one next year. Maybe, if our podcast picks up, we can do it. Yeah, as a, probably. I don't think they'd let us do as a presenter, but we'd probably maybe be able to get like a little booth in the exhibition.
Speaker 1:It's on you listeners the whole five of you. No pressure, no, no pressure at all. What else? I think that's it. So what have you been reading? And yeah, I keep wanting to say reading and writing, but that's not what I mean Reading and listening to and watching.
Speaker 2:I have not been writing stuff for this podcast, which I honestly hardly wrote anything for. I have been reading, I've been we've been watching Star Trek, lower Decks. We're on season four and now that I'm on season four, I'm so sad to learn that they announced that they're going to end the show at season five and I'm like why it's an animation like they're gonna end the show at season five and I'm like why it's an animation like you can just keep it going, but apparently somebody is being a dick and it's it's awesome like.
Speaker 1:You know what do you mean by somebody's being a dick. Like they won't like their contract, by they're gonna by ending the show.
Speaker 2:oh yeah, so I don't, I don't see, you know, like animations, like they keep on going for fucking forever they can?
Speaker 1:yeah, like Riding the Simpsons are still going, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I'm like, why not a few more seasons? You know, yeah, I'm not ready for it to end. So, yeah, it's been delightful. I'm sad that I'm almost at the end of the seasons, the episodes that are out. So when I'm done I'll probably revisit, finish, revisit but finish Discovery. But I'm like I most of the time, you know, at the end of the day I just am not having the brain cells. For you know something serious, you know, and Lower Decks gives me that Star Trek itch, but without being serious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what was?
Speaker 2:I I don't know why I clicked on my fucking Facebook. I'm supposed to be looking at my Goodreads to tell you what I read. So I, what's the last thing? Oh, I think last time we talked about strange sally diamond, right? So I read monstrilio by gerardo samano cordova, so that was really good and kind of sad and poignant about grief and changing and shit like that, and so, yeah, yeah, it had. You know, I had kind of some fun moments too and kind of gross moments and you know, yeah, but yeah, mostly it was kind of sad and poignant. So I enjoy, I enjoyed that, but yeah, it's definitely got that. If that's the kind of.
Speaker 2:I read the young adult book Chlorine Chlorine, like chlorine in pools by Jade Song, and that was, as I mentioned to you, my favorite of the books that I read recently. It is about like a young, ambitious Chinese-American swimmer who's like a top swimming athlete and she gets top grades and just like the pressure, you know, of the competing and like being the fucking best at everything. The fucking best at everything and and she and it's about transformation, she believes and maybe she is turning into a mermaid. So up to you. And there's some definitely body horror element to it. So be aware of that. And there's definitely some triggering about parental pressure, about, you know, like sexual assault and like creepy borderline not you know borderline stuff from like creepy coach stuff. So if that's a warning it is sapphic. So that's a bonus for me and, yeah, I really enjoyed that book and it has just kind of one of those ambiguous endings. Yeah, that was a fun one.
Speaker 1:I read the book ripe about like a don't go too in depth about that one though.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, because that's one I want to read, because you want to read that anyway, you know, it had its moments where I was like, yeah, like you know, and it's definitely got like a anti-capitalist kind of narrative and I liked the parts where they talked about black holes and stuff like that, but it wasn't as good as I hoped it was, so it didn't quite live up to my expectations and to me. I found the ending kind of predictable.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, it was all right, I just wasn't blown away.
Speaker 2:What you wanted yeah, and I'm currently reading Dyket by Jenny Fran Davis and I'm about halfway through and, yeah, it's not my typical kind of book, because there's no sci-fi, there's no fantasy, there's no, there's no sci-fi, there's no fantasy, there's no horror, murder, right. It's just like relationships and drama and, like you know, queer um, you know, like these queer, three queer couples on like a 10-day retreat, um, and they're kind of rich and bougie, yeah. So I'm having a hard time relating to that rich, bougie aspect, right, but it's fun. Like at first, I was really having a hard time relating to the protagonist, yeah, but yeah, I found some common ground. Well, that's good. I think we're doing okay. Oh, is that it? Yeah, that's where I'm at right now.
Speaker 1:So I'm watching the same old, same old. I did subscribe, at least for two weeks, to I think it's History Hit or something to watch some little snippets of history that are kind of fun. One was on medieval ghosts, which was cool. There's not really anything else I wanted to watch on there, though, so I'm probably gonna end my subscription. What else did I do or watch? I don't know. Same old, same old. I I don't even really know.
Speaker 1:It's mostly on the background for me. But I read not the book I was supposed to be reading with rachel, which is mary uh. Instead I reread a book called the blue castle by lucy mott montgomery. She wrote the anne of green gables books it. I read it probably 21, 22 years ago, something along those lines. It's about a 29-year-old spinster who basically does everything she's told by her family, who are a bunch of dickwads, and she gets a medical diagnosis and decides to live her life. So she goes off to live with the town, hussy and the hussy's drunk father, and because it's Lucy Maud Montgomery, there is a romantic relationship element, but it's like you have to get through like 70% of the book before you even get there. So it's not like the main thing, but it is there.
Speaker 2:Is there a relationship with the town hussy?
Speaker 1:No, the town hussy dies. I'm not giving anything away, you figure that out pretty early.
Speaker 2:Hope shattered yeah.
Speaker 1:No, it wasn't Safik. The other one I read was a book called Rooms of their Own by Alex Johnson. The other one I read was a book called Rooms of their Own by Alex Johnson, which I would say normally that it would be a coffee table book. But it's not big enough to be a coffee table book. It's a small book but it's about various writers and their writing rooms and their routines and things like that, and it's beautifully illustrated watercolor. So I finally finished that.
Speaker 1:I started, started that the start of the year and then I got to marry and I'm about close to 100 pages in. I really, I really like it. I'll see, I knew you well, I knew I would like it. I know I knew I would like it too. The not reading it had nothing to do with me not thinking I would like it. Yeah, I mean, it was my suggestion to read it. It's very true and I bought it and I've been wanting to read it.
Speaker 1:I just didn't get to it and I took it with me to on my trip, right, it's so fucking big, yeah, that I didn't feel like carrying it to the beach or carrying it around crime cons. So so I mean, it's been to la. It's been to manhattan beach. It's been to nashville. It's well traveled. It's well traveled, yeah, but I will finish it and I'm sure I'll finish it soon. Yay, although I have to edit the podcast, so it may not be as soon as I would like but um, then we're gonna read other stuff yeah, we've got a long list of things to get done in the next two weeks of june.
Speaker 1:Pretty much our april and may tbr's got moved to june yep. So, uh, we're reading persuasion and emma, yep, and the girl who can move shit with her mind Bad Cree.
Speaker 2:Bad Cree and Fahrenheit 451.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, and then at some point we're also going to read Ballard's Crash, although I think that's July, probably. Yeah, yeah, so we're still working our way through Jane Austen, although we've only read one of the five and we said we were gonna do that, what like six months ago.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've had persuasion on deck, but I've been waiting for you I know I mean, it's not like we haven't read it. I read a bunch of the books yeah, I've read the books before too, I've read persuasion.
Speaker 1:No, I know. No, I mean I've read them all before, but I mean I read a bunch of the books yeah, I've read the books before too.
Speaker 2:I've read persuasion, no, I know. No, I mean I've read them all before, but I mean I read a bunch of the books that were on our list I know, I know, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I've had a terrible reading slump it's okay.
Speaker 2:But I was like I was like I'm gonna wait for katie to read a book before I read some more of these books yeah.
Speaker 1:No, it's all my fault. It's all my fault. We haven't continued the list of the 1987 movies either.
Speaker 2:No, no To be, honest, like I would fall asleep during them anyway, so, as much as I did want to watch them, like I would fall asleep.
Speaker 1:I watched Plane Trains and Automobiles.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did stay awake for that mostly I like fell asleep for like a short time. Yeah, I woke up before the end, so you gotta get better sleep, dude sounds nice in theory, I know, but yeah all right.
Speaker 1:Well, is that it for both of us? Okay, we were gonna talk about our, our uh, how we're doing on our new year's resolution, but I think we have both decided that we've done absolutely zero new year's what?
Speaker 2:new year's resolutions I don't know what that is we have done zero.
Speaker 1:I think the only thing I've continued to do is my are my nails. Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't done nothing else. Was that even a resolution of mine to do my nails?
Speaker 1:I don't think so, my nails.
Speaker 2:So no, although we had very simple resolutions.
Speaker 1:We have not done it although the one you were doing really well on was the walking it. It's not your fault that it's 110 degrees outside.
Speaker 2:I was doing pretty good on the walking yeah, until it reached deadly temperatures outside. Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's one thing I was so annoyed about going to LA. Maybe you should have gotten a treadmill Because I assumed LA would have nice weather. But that whole week I was there it was in the 60s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and cloudy 60s sounds good to me, so I didn't get to wear any of my bathing suits that I bought. Yeah, which was a bummer, I did go to the beach.
Speaker 1:I mean, I walked along the beach, I got my feet wet but the water was cold. I was not about to go and swim in it. But I would take that 65 degree weather with a cloudy sky over this 100 plus degree weather with no clouds in sight any day of the week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and another reason I want to move to LA now, which hadn't really been on my radar, is the fact that, despite the fact that I wanted my doctor to be wrong, that, despite the fact that I wanted my doctor to be wrong and she was right in the sense that my sinuses, my ability to breathe, increased, yeah, while I was away from new mexico and new mexico historically was the place everybody came to because they had breathing problems but then they brought all of their plants and shit that were giving them breathing problems and put them here.
Speaker 1:So now we have breathing problems, but yeah, I mean I I've I don't think I've breathed that well like I was in in la in over a decade.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hopefully now that my backyard is clear, then my allergies will clear up a little bit.
Speaker 1:Like, subscribe, download, follow Not just the podcast, but we'll also put our personal details in the show notes. Email us. Absolute crickets out there. So yeah, give, give us something. Is anybody listening? Yeah, we, we gotta have some fans out there somebody so somebody likes the weird shit we're doing yeah, I mean, if we get more listeners, then we can get monetized and we can bring, like some people on crime books.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nerd, oh, that reminds me. Yeah, yeah that reminds me.
Speaker 1:Uh, we have a book coming up in two episodes yes, episode 20, and it is um a book which that involves?
Speaker 2:witches. Hang on, I've got it in my audible library. Let me scroll down. Okay, and um the witch of new york by alex hortus okay, so the witch of new york by alex hortus.
Speaker 1:What's?
Speaker 2:up, I got the answer of the book for once.
Speaker 1:You did. Yes, I was unprepared. All right Again, like subscribe download.
Speaker 2:I got too many books on the Audible sale. What is too many books? That's such a concept. It does not exist. No, there were some books for like two bucks or whatever, I know it was like two bucks click, click, click.
Speaker 1:All right, so do all of the things for us. We'd appreciate it. Yes, please Reach out to us if you want, and we will see you next time. All right, bye, happy Pride, happy Pride.
